Polkey v AE Dayton Services Ltd [1987] UKHL 8

House of Lords

PolkeyAppellantAE Dayton Services LtdRespondent
Lord ChancellorLord Keith of KinkelLord Bridge of HarwichLord Brandon of OakbrookLord AcknerDate 22 October 1986

LORD MACKAY OF CLASHFERN

My Lords,The appellant was employed by the respondents ("the employers") from 19 June 1978 until 27 August 1982 as a van driver. On that date he was dismissed as redundant. On 8 November 1982 he applied to an industrial tribunal to hold that he had been unfairly dismissed. On 23 February 1983 the industrial tribunal dismissed the application. It was accepted on behalf of the appellant before the industrial tribunal that at the time of his dismissal it was urgently necessary for the employers to reduce their overheads in their undertaking and that, in consequence, it was necessary to make certain of their van drivers redundant. They had three male van drivers and one female van driver and it was decided that for the future only two van salesmen should be appointed. The manager immediately responsible for the appellant decided that none of the three male van drivers was capable of performing the task of a van salesman but that the female van driver was so capable. Some four weeks after the appellant's dismissal a second van salesman was appointed from outside the employers' work-force. On 20 August the appellant's branch manager informed his superior of his decision and without any consultation with employees or their representative or earlier warning to the appellant his branch manager called him into his office on the afternoon of 27 August told him quite out of the blue that he was redundant and handed to him his redundancy letter. The appellant was immediately driven home by a fellow employee. The industrial tribunal characterised this aspect of the appellant's dismissal by saying: There could be no more heartless disregard of the provisions of the code of practice than that."The code of practice referred to is the statutory code presently in force under the Employment Protection Act 1975, Schedule 17, paragraph 4 in which paragraph *6 provides:
"If redundancy becomes necessary, management in consultation, as appropriate, with employees or their representatives, should: (i) give as much warning as practicable to the employees concerned . . . ; (iii) establish which employees are to be made redundant and the order of discharge; . . ."
The industrial tribunal further found: "There is nothing that excuses their failure to consult but" - this is the matter that gives rise to the point of principle in the present appeal -
"at the end of the day we have no alternative but to find that in this case had they acted in accordance with the code of practice, as interpreted in the recent case [Williams v. Compair Maxam Ltd [1982] ICR 156 ], the result would not have been any different, and we have therefore unhappily to reject this application."
The appellant appealed to the Employment Appeal Tribunal but on his behalf it was conceded that the appeal tribunal was bound by authority to dismiss the appeal. The only question the Employment Appeal Tribunal had to consider was whether to give leave to appeal which they did. The Court of Appeal, Neill and Nicholls L.JJ. and Sir George Waller [1987] 1 W.L.R. 1147, dismissed the appeal, held that they were bound by authority to do so, and granted leave to the appellant to appeal to this House.This appeal raises an important question in the law of unfair dismissal. Where an industrial tribunal has found that the reason for an applicant's dismissal was a reason of a kind such as could justify the dismissal and has found that there has been a failure to consult or warn the applicant in accordance with the code of practice, should the tribunal consider whether, if the employee had been consulted or warned before dismissal was decided upon, he would nevertheless have been dismissed? The answer depends upon the application to this situation of section 57(3) of the Employment Protection (Consolidation) Act 1978 as amended, which is in these terms:
"Where the employer has fulfilled the requirements of subsection (1), then, subject to subsections 58 to 62, the determination! of the question whether the dismissal was fair or unfair, having regard to the reason shown by the employer, shall depend on whether in the circumstances (including the size and administrative resources of the employer's undertaking) the employer acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating it as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee; and that question shall be determined in accordance with equity and the substantial merits of the case."
Where there is no issue raised by sections 58 to 62 the subject matter for the tribunal's consideration is the employer's action in treating the reason as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee. It is that action and that action only that the tribunal is required to characterise as reasonable or unreasonable. That leaves no scope for the tribunal considering whether, if the employer had acted differently, he might have dismissed the employee. It is what the employer did that is to be judged, not what he might have done. On the other hand, in judging whether what the employer did was reasonable it is right to consider what a reasonable employer would have had in mind at the time he decided to dismiss as the consequence of not consulting or not warning.If the employer could reasonably have concluded in the light of the circumstances known to him at the time of dismissal that consultation or warning would be utterly useless he might well act reasonably even if he did not observe the provisions of the code. Failure to observe the requirement of the code relating to consultation or warning will not necessarily render a dismissal unfair. Whether in any particular case it did so is a matter for the industrial tribunal to consider in the light of the circumstances known to the employer at the time he dismissed the employee.I turn to consider how these views accord with the decided cases. Very early in the history of this legislation and its statutory predecessors Sir John Donaldson in Earl v. Slater & Wheeler (Airlyne) Ltd. [1973] 1 W.L.R. 51, 57 said:
"With respect to the tribunal, we think that it erred in holding that an unfair procedure which led to no injustice is incapable of rendering unfair a dismissal which would otherwise be fair. The question in every case is whether the employer acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating the reason as sufficient for dismissing the employee and it has to be answered with reference to the circumstances known to the employer at the moment of dismissal. If an employer thinks that his accountant may be taking the firm's money, but has no real grounds for so thinking and dismisses him for this reason, he acts wholly unreasonably and commits the unfair industrial practice of unfair dismissal, notwithstanding that it is later proved that the accountant had in fact been guilty of embezzlement. Proof of the embezzlement affects the amount of the compensation, but not the issue of fair or unfair dismissal."
Again in Vokes Ltd, v. Bear [1974] I.C.R. 1, 5 Sir Hugh Griffiths, referring to the statutory predecessor of this section, said:
"We are unable to accept the submission that 'the circumstances' are limited to those directly affecting the ground of dismissal, in the sense submitted by [counsel for the employers], 'The circumstances' embrace all relevant matters that should weigh with a good employer when deciding at a given moment in time whether or not he should dismiss his employee. The subsection [section 24(6) of the Industrial Relations Act 1971] is focusing the tribunal's attention upon 'the dismissal', that is, the dismissal on March 2. The question they have to ask themselves is whether on March 2 the employers were acting reasonably in treating redundancy as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee on that date. The tribunal are entitled to take into account all the circumstances affecting both the employers and the employee at the time of the dismissal. In the present case, no doubt the time would have come when the employers would have to dismiss the employee for redundancy for the good of the company as a whole, but the tribunal were fully entitled to take the view that that moment had not yet arrived by March 2. The employers had not yet done that which in all fairness and reason they should do, namely, to make the obvious attempt to see if the employee could be placed somewhere else within this large group. The position is somewhat analogous to the case of a warning. An employer may have good grounds for thinking that a man is not capable of doing his job properly, but in the general run of cases it will not be reasonable for him to regard that lack of capability as a sufficient reason for dismissing him until he is given a warning so that the man has a chance to show if he can do better. So in this case there was a redundancy situation but there was no compelling reason why the axe should fall until the employers had done their best to help the employee. It is therefore with satisfaction that we find that there is nothing in the wording of section 24(6) of the Act of 1971 which compels us to take the view that behaviour which we think most people would consider manifestly unfair is nevertheless to be deemed fair under the Act. If the employers had made all reasonable attempts to place the employee in the group and had failed, then the time might have come when it would be reasonable for them to regard the redundancy as a sufficient reason for the dismissal, but until that moment had come the tribunal were entitled to take the view that it was not reasonable to dismiss for redundancy and accordingly that it was unfair."
This approach to the legislation was endorsed in this House in W. Devis & Sons Ltd, v. Atkins [1977] AC 931 . Viscount Dilhorne, in a speech with which the other members of the House sitting in the appeal agreed, said of the statutory predecessor of section 57(3), at p. 952:
"It [paragraph 6(8) of Schedule 1 to the Trade Union and Labour Relations Act 1971] appears to me to direct the tribunal to focus its attention on the conduct of the employer and not on whether the employee in fact suffered any injustice."
After quoting, with approval, the principal part of the passage I have already cited from Sir John Donaldson in Earl v. Slater & Wheeler (Airlyne) Ltd, and after referring to the statutory provision then entitling the tribunal to take the code into account Viscount Dilhorne said, at p. 955:
"It does not follow that non-compliance with the code necessarily renders a dismissal unfair, but I agree with the view expressed by Sir John Donaldson in Earl v. Slater & Wheeler (Airlyne) Ltd. [1973] 1 W.L.R. 51 that a failure to follow a procedure prescribed in the code may lead to the conclusion that a dismissal was unfair, which, if that procedure had been followed, would have been held to have been fair."
So far, the current of decision is entirely in accordance with the views I have expressed, but the tribunal in the present case were bound by a stream of authority applying the so-called British Labour Pump principle [British Labour Pump Co. Ltd, v. Byrne. [1979] I.C.R. 347].Browne-Wilkinson J. in Sillifant v. Powell Duffryn Timber Ltd. [1983] I.R.L.R. 91 thus described the principle, at p. 92:
"even if, judged in the light of the circumstances known at the time of dismissal, the employer's decision was not reasonable because of some failure to follow a fair procedure yet the dismissal can be held fair if, on the facts proved before the industrial tribunal, the industrial tribunal comes to the conclusion that the employer could reasonably have decided to dismiss if he had followed a fair procedure."
It is because one of its statements is contained in British Labour Pump Co. Ltd, v. Byrne that it has been called the British Labour Pump principle although it did not originate in that decision. In Sillifant's case the Employment Appeal Tribunal were urged to hold that the principle was unsound and not to give effect to it. After referring to the cases which introduced this principle, namely Charles Letts & Co. Ltd v. Howard [1976] I.R.L.R. 248 a decision relating only to compensation, Lowndes v. Specialist Heavy Engineering Ltd. [1977] I.C.R. 1, British United Shoe Machinery Co. Ltd, v. Clarke [1978] ICR 70 and the British Labour Pump case itself, Brown-Wilkinson J. continued, at p. 97:
"Apart therefore from recent Court of Appeal authority and the Lowndes case, the British Labour Pump principle appears to have become established in practice without it being appreciated that it represented a fundamental departure from both basic principle and the earlier decisions. If we felt able to do so we would hold that it is wrong in principle and undesirable in its practical effect. It introduces just that confusion which Devis v. Atkins was concerned to avoid between the fairness of the dismissal (which depends solely upon the reasonableness of the employer's conduct) and the compensation payable to the employee (which takes into account the conduct of the employee whether known to the employer or not). In our judgment, apart from the authority to which we are about to refer, the correct approach to such a case would be as follows. The only test of the fairness of a dismissal is the reasonableness of the employer's decision to dismiss judged at the time at which the dismissal takes effect. An industrial tribunal is not bound to hold that any procedural failure by the employer renders the dismissal unfair: it is one of the factors to be weighed by the industrial tribunal in deciding whether or not the dismissal was reasonable within section 57(3). The weight to be attached to such procedural failure should depend upon the circumstances known to the employer at the time of dismissal, not on the actual consequence of such failure. Thus in the case of a failure to give an opportunity to explain, except in the rare case where a reasonable employer could properly take the view on the facts known to him at the time of dismissal that no explanation or mitigation could alter his decision to dismiss, an industrial tribunal would be likely to hold that the lack of 'equity' inherent in the failure would render the dismissal unfair. But there may be cases where the offence is so heinous and the facts so manifestly clear that a reasonable employer could, on the facts known to him at the time of dismissal, take the view that whatever explanation the employee advanced it would make no difference: see the example referred to by Lawton L.J. in Bailey v. B. P. Oil (Kent Refinery) Ltd. [1980] I.C.R. 642. Where, in the circumstances known at the time of dismissal, it was not reasonable for the employer to dismiss without giving an opportunity to explain but facts subsequently discovered or proved before the industrial tribunal show that the dismissal was in fact merited, compensation would be reduced to nil. Such an approach ensures that an employee who could have been fairly dismissed does not get compensation but would prevent the suggestion of 'double standards' inherent in the British Labour Pump principle. An employee dismissed for suspected dishonesty who is in fact innocent has no redress: if the employer acted fairly in dismissing him on the facts and in the circumstances known to him at the time of dismissal the employee's innocence is irrelevant. Why should an employer be entitled to a finding that he acted fairly when, on the facts known and in the circumstances existing at the time of dismissal, his actions were unfair but which facts subsequently coming to light show did not cause any injustice? The choice in dealing with section 57(3) is between looking at the reasonableness of the employer or justice to the employee. Devis v. Atkins shows that the correct test is the reasonableness of the employer; the British Labour Pump principle confuses the two approaches."
I gratefully adopt that analysis. The Employment Appeal Tribunal, however, went on to hold that they were bound by the decision of the Court of Appeal in W. & J. Wass Ltd, v. Binns [1982] I.C.R. 486 which held that the British Labour Pump principle is good law and to that decision of the Court of Appeal I must now turn.In that case an employee was dismissed for misconduct which had occurred on the morning of the day on which he was dismissed. There was evidence of previous misbehaviour by the employee but the industrial tribunal held that the case had to be determined on the basis of what had happened on that morning and that the employers had acted reasonably and had fairly dismissed the employee even though they had not warned him about his previous misbehaviour or given him an opportunity to explain his conduct on that morning. The industrial tribunal decided that even if there had been an investigation the employee would still have been dismissed because on the balance of probabilities the employers would not have accepted his explanation and the dismissal was therefore fair. The Employment Appeal Tribunal reversed the decision of the industrial tribunal but the Court of Appeal, Waller and O'Connor L.JJ and Sir George Baker, Sir George Baker dissenting, restored the decision of the industrial tribunal. Waller L.J. said, at p. 493:
"[Counsel for the employer] submitted that the test in the British Labour Pump case goes further than section 57(3) of the Employment Protection (Consolidation) Act 1978 requires, and submits that it is the statutory test which must be complied with. This in my opinion is strictly correct, and if the employer and the industrial tribunal are satisfied in an exceptional case that no opportunity to explain need be offered and that the employer in the circumstances acted reasonably in accordance with equity and the substantial merits of the case, the test would not apply. But since in the majority of cases fairness would require an opportunity to explain, as indeed many industrial contracts provide, then in such cases the British Labour Pump case provides useful guidelines. It was argued by [counsel for the employee] that the British Labour Pump case was itself not in accordance with the observations of Viscount Dilhorne in W. Devis &. Sons Ltd, v. Atkins [1977] A.C 931, 949-958. That case was dealing with a different point, namely, whether a dismissal can be justified as fair when the fact, or facts, are not known at the time of dismissal but are discovered afterwards. I do not find anything in the speech of Viscount Dilhorne which throws doubt on the reasoning of the decision in the British Labour Pump case."
At p. 496, O'Connor L.J. after holding that the employee's conduct on the morning of dismissal justified summary dismissal went on to consider the industrial tribunal's finding that the explanation proffered by the employee was not acceptable. He said:
"For my part I think that once the industrial tribunal made that finding they would have been entitled to say that the employee had not been prejudiced in any way by not being asked to explain his conduct and that the dismissal was fair. The industrial tribunal in fact applied the British Labour Pump Co. Ltd, v. Byrne test and found in favour of the employers. I can find no ground for disturbing that finding. I do not think that any question of law was raised before the Employment Appeal Tribunal. I am satisfied that the decision of the industrial tribunal was not perverse. I see no reason for disturbing it."
Sir George Baker said, at pp. 498-499:
"the failure to give the employee any opportunity to explain why he should not be dismissed seems to me to be in the circumstances of this case a denial of natural justice which elimated equity or fair play. There are cases where instant dismissal without an opportunity of explaining would be fair. . . . Then there must be many cases where it is clearly for the tribunal to decide whether, in the words of Stephenson L.J . in W. Weddell & Co. Ltd, v. Tepper [1980] I.C.R. 286, 297, the employers have acted 'without making the appropriate enquiries or giving the employee a fair opportunity to explain himself. . . .' Viscount Dilhorne in his speech in W. Devis & Sons Ltd, v. Atkins [1977] A.C. 931. . . said, at p. 953:
'If, however, the reasons shown appear to have been a sufficient reason, it cannot, in my opinion, be said that the employer acted reasonably in treating it as such if he only did so in consequence of ignoring matters which he ought reasonably to have known and which would have shown that the reason was insufficient.'
Like Waller L.J. I do not think that this throws any doubt on the reasoning in the later decision of the Employment Appeal Tribunal (Slynn J.) in British Labour Pump Co. Ltd, v. Byrne [1979] I.C.R. 347 which the industrial tribunal in the present case purported to apply as the right test."He went on to conclude on the evidence, differing in this respect from his colleagues, that the evidence did not show that after the employee had given his explanation the employers would probably still have dismissed him and for this reason he held the dismissal was unfair. The opinions of the Court Appeal thus do not add to the reasoning in the cases examined by Browne-Wilkinson J. in Sillifant.The only other Court of Appeal decision remaining for consideration that supports the British Labour Pump principle is that in the present case [1987] 1 W.L.R. 1147. The Court of Appeal held themselves bound by the decision in W. & J. Wass Ltd, v. Binns and, in my opinion, they were clearly right in that aspect of their decision. Neill L.J., taking up the point which had been described by Browne-Wilkinson J. as the double standards aspect of the British Labour Pump principle, says, at pp. 1153- 1154:
"The question can then be asked: if an employer cannot justify dismissal and if an employee cannot complain of a dismissal on the basis of facts not known to the employer at the time of dismissal, how can it be right for an industrial tribunal to embark on the speculative exercise of examining facts which were not known to the employer at the time of dismissal in order to decide whether a procedural defect made any difference? At first sight, this question appears to require the answer that such an exercise would be contrary to the decision in W. Devis & Sons Ltd, v. Atkins [1977] AC 931 because it would allow an employer to rely on facts not known to him at the time of dismissal, or, where an internal appeal procedure has been put in operation, not known to him at the time when the final decision: to uphold the dismissal was taken. On further analysis, however, it seems to me that an answer on these lines overlooks the crucial distinction between the reason for a dismissal and the manner in which the dismissal is effected."
After reference to the statutory provision he goes on, at pp. 1154-1156:
"It will be seen therefore that a complaint of unfair dismissal will succeed where the employer fails to establish that the reason for dismissal was one of those specified in section 57(2) or where the tribunal reaches the conclusion that even though the employer has fulfilled the requirements of section 57(1) he acted unreasonably in treating the reasons shown by him as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee. But, on the other hand, a complaint of unfair dismissal will not succeed merely because of the manner in which the dismissal was carried out. A failure to observe a proper procedure may make a dismissal unfair, but this is not because such failure by itself makes the dismissal unfair, but because the failure, for example, to give an employee an opportunity to explain may lead the tribunal to the conclusion that the employer, in the circumstances, acted unreasonably in treating the reason for dismissal as a sufficient reason. The tribunal will look at the practical effect of the failure to observe the proper procedure in order to decide whether or not the dismissal was unfair. Where an employee is dismissed for alleged misconduct and he then complains that he was unfairly dismissed, it is to be anticipated that the industrial tribunal will usually need to consider (a) the nature and gravity of the alleged misconduct; (b) the information on which the employer based his decision; (c) whether there was any other information which the employer could or should have obtained or any other step which he should have taken before he dismissed the employee. Similarly, in a case of alleged redundancy, it is to be anticipated that the industrial tribunal will usually need to consider (a) the information on which the employer based his decision to dismiss the employee as redundant and the method of selection which he used and (b) whether there was any other information which the employer could or should have obtained or any other step which he should have taken before he dismissed the employee. In some cases of misconduct, however, the misconduct may be so grave and the information available to the employer so clear that the tribunal will be likely to conclude that no further inquiries by the employer were necessary .... But in many cases of misconduct, the tribunal will need to consider whether the employer, either in accordance with some disciplinary procedure or otherwise, should have taken steps to obtain further information either from the employee or from elsewhere because such information might throw light on the sufficiency of the employer's reason for dismissal. But the failure to obtain this information does not ipso facto render the dismissal unfair, and it seems to me to be both logical and desireable to require the industrial tribunal to try to evaluate the effect in practice of the failure. Thus, as [counsel for the employees] acknowledged, there may be cases where the evidence of misconduct is not so clear as to justify instant dismissal and which could be capable of explanation, but where, on examination, the employee has no explanation to put forward. In such a case, the failure to seek an explanation from the employee, which fairness would in principle require, will not make any difference. In a case where dismissal is on the ground of redundancy, the matter may have to be looked at rather differently because the system adopted for the selection of the individual for redundancy may be at the very centre of the inquiry when the tribunal comes to determine whether the employer has acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating redundancy as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee concerned. The decision of the appeal tribunal In Williams v Compair Maxam Ltd. [1982] ICR 156 demonstrates the importance of the use of a fair system. Furthermore, it is to be noted that section 59 of the Act of 1978 contains special provisions rendering dismissal on the ground of redundancy unfair .... But where section 59 does not apply, it seems to me to be proper and indeed necessary for the tribunal to investigate the effect of the failure to consult the employee or to warn him or to hold discussions or as the case may be. In some cases, the facts may show beyond peradventure that no discussions or other steps could have made any difference whatever because the state of the company was so grave. In other cases, the matter will be more evenly balanced. But, for my part, I can see no objection in principle to the tribunal seeking to evaluate the effect in practice of any failure by the employer to observe the provisions of a code of practice or of the guidelines prescribed in cases such as Williams v. Compair Maxam Ltd.. . . . Prima facie, as the reason for dismissal was redundancy, the reason was a valid reason. The failure to consult did not automatically render the dismissal unfair; it was for the tribunal to determine whether that failure showed that the employers had acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating redundancy as a sufficient reason for the dismissal of the employee. For that purpose, they had to look at all the circumstances including the consequences of the failure."
In my opinion, the learned Lord Justice's answer on first sight was correct. With much of what he says I would respectfully agree but I cannot accept it all. For example in referring to a case of dismissal for misconduct where the evidence of misconduct could be capable of explanation and no explanation has been invited before dismissal the examination of which the learned Lord Justice speaks is an examination of matters other than the employer's conduct which could not be known to the employers until after the decision to dismiss had been reached and therefore it was not available to the employer at the time he reached that decision. Perhaps the point is highlighted most plainly in the very last sentence which I have quoted. The consequences of the failure determine whether or not the employee suffered an injustice. This is not to be confused with the question whether the employer acted reasonably.Further, in my opinion, the statutory test shows that at least some aspects of the manner of dismissal fall to be considered in considering whether a dismissal is unfair since the action of the employer in treating the reason as sufficient for dismissal of the employee will include at least part of the manner of the dismissal. Accordingly, it is not correct to draw a distinction between the reason for dismissal and the manner of dismissal as if these were mutually exclusive, with the industrial tribunal limited to considering only the reason for dimissal. Nicholls L.J. agreed with Neill L.J. as did Sir George Waller. Sir George, however, added some observations.At p. 311, he said:
"The industrial tribunal, having inquired into what would have happened if the code of practice had been complied with, came to the conclusion that it would have made no difference. In other words, the employers acted reasonably in treating redundancy as a sufficient reason for dismissing the employee."
In my view, with great respect, these two sentences show that Sir George was treating the question whether the employee had suffered injustice as the same question as whether the employer had acted 'reasonably.In my opinion, therefore, the additional reasons given by the Court of Appeal in the present case for supporting the British Labour Pump principle involve an impermissible reliance upon matters not known to the employers before the dismissal and a confusion between unreasonable conduct in reaching the conclusion to dismiss, which is a necessary ingredient of an unfair dismissal, and injustice to the employee which is not a necessary ingredient of an unfair dismissal, although its absence will be important in relation to a compensatory award.It follows that I do not agree with the decision of the Court of Appeal in the present case and this appeal should be allowed, the British Labour Pump principle and all decisions supporting it are inconsistent with the relevant statutory provision and should be overruled and, in particular, the decision of the Court of Appeal in W. & J. Wass Ltd, v. Binns [1982] LC.R. 486 should be overruled. "That leaves for consideration the appropriate form of order to be made by the House. Counsel for the appellant asked that the House should hold that the appellant's dismissal had been unfair and remit the case to the tribunal to consider remedy. Counsel for the employers, while accepting that the British Labour Pump principle and W. & J. Wass Ltd, v. Binns were wrong and that accordingly the industrial tribunal had applied the wrong test in coming to its conclusion, submitted that on the findings of the tribunal supplemented by the evidence the tribunal were bound to hold that the dismissal was fair since a reasonable employer considering the facts known to this employer at the date of the dismissal could reasonably have concluded that observance of the code would make no difference to the conclusion.The notes of evidence available to your Lordships are necessarily only a brief summary and the tribunal's findings do not deal exhaustively with all the matters that appear to have been raised in the evidence; in particular they do not deal with the evidence that appears to have related to an appeal by the appellant to the employers to rescind the dismissal. In these circumstances I consider that no adequate basis exists for your Lordships to determine whether this dismissal was fair or unfair. The industrial tribunal asked themselves the wrong question when they applied the British Labour Pump principle. It is not apparent what their answer would have been if they had asked themselves the correct question. In my opinion the proper course is to remit this case to a new industrial tribunal for consideration in the light of your Lordships' judgment. The respondents must bear the appellant's costs in the Court of Appeal and in this House.

LORD KEITH OF KINKEL

My Lords,I have had the opportunity of considering in draft the speech delivered by my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack. I agree with it, and for the reasons he gives would allow the appeal and remit the case to an' industrial tribunal differently constituted.

LORD BRIDGE OF HARWICH

My Lords,I have had the advantage of reading in draft the speech of my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor and I agree with it. I add some short observations of my own because of the importance of the case.Employers contesting a claim of unfair dismissal will commonly advance as their reason for dismissal one of the reasons specifically recognised as valid by section 57(2)( a ), ( b ) and ( c ) of the Employment Protection (Consolidation) Act 1978. These, put shortly, are: ( a ) that the employee could not do his job properly; ( b ) that he had been guilty of misconduct; ( c ) that he was redundant. But an employer having prima facie grounds to dismiss for one of these reasons will in the great majority of cases not act reasonably in treating the reason as a sufficient reason for dismissal unless and until he has taken the steps, conveniently classified in most of the authorities as "procedural," which are necessary in the circumstances of the case to justify that course of action. Thus, in the case of incapacity, the employer will normally not act reasonably unless he gives the employee fair warning and an opportunity to mend his ways and show that he can do the job; in the case of misconduct, the employer will normally not act reasonably unless he investigates the complaint of misconduct fully and fairly and hears whatever the employee wishes to say in his defence or in explanation or mitigation; in the case of redundancy, the employer will normally not act reasonably unless he warns and consults any employees affected or their representative, adopts a fair basis on which to select for redundancy arid takes such steps as may be reasonable to avoid or minimise redundancy by redeployment within his own organisation. If an employer has failed to take the appropriate procedural steps in any particular case, the one question the industrial tribunal is not permitted to ask in applying the test of reasonableness posed by section 57(3) is the hypothetical question whether it would have made any difference to the outcome if the appropriate procedural steps had been taken. On the true construction of section 57(3) this question is simply irrelevant. It is quite a different matter if the tribunal is able to conclude that the employer himself, at the time of dismissal, acted reasonably in taking the view that, in the exceptional circumstances of the particular case, the procedural steps normally appropriate would have been futile, could not have altered the decision to dismiss and therefore could be dispensed with. In such a case the test of reasonableness under section 57(3) may be satisfied.My Lords,I think these conclusions are fully justified by the cogent reasoning of Browne-Wilkinson J. in Sillifant v. Powell Duffryn Timber Ltd. [1983] I.R.L.R. 91 to which my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor has already drawn attention.If it is held, that taking the appropriate steps which the employer failed to fake before dismissing the employer would not have affected the outcome, this will often lead to the result that the employee, though unfairly dismissed, will recover no compensation or, in the case of redundancy, no compensation in excess of his redundancy payment. Thus in Earl v. Slater & Wheeler (Airlyne) Ltd. [1973] 1 W.L.R. 51 the employee was held to have been unfairly dismissed, but nevertheless lost his appeal to the Industrial Relations Court because his misconduct disentitled him to any award of compensation, which was at that time the only effective remedy. But in spite of this the application of the so-called British Labour Pump principle [British Labour Pump Co. Ltd v. Byrne] [1979] I.C.R. 347] tends to distort the operation of the employment protection legislation in two important ways. First, as was pointed out by Browne-Wilkinson J. in Sillifant's case, if the industrial tribunal, in considering whether the employer who has omitted to take the appropriate procedural steps acted reasonably or unreasonably in treating his reason as a sufficient reason for dismissal, poses for itself the hypothetical question whether the result would have been any different if the appropriate procedural steps had been taken, it can only answer that question on a balance of probabilities. Accordingly, applying the British Labour Pump principle, if the answer is that it probably would have made no difference, the employee's unfair dismissal claim fails. But if the likely effect of taking the appropriate procedural steps is only considered, as it should be, at the stage of assessing compensation, the position is quite different. In that situation, as Browne-Wilkinson J. puts it in Sillifant's case, at p. 96:
"There is no need for an 'all or nothing' decision. If the industrial tribunal thinks there is a doubt whether or not the employee would have been dismissed, this element can be reflected by reducing the normal amount of compensation by a percentage representing the chance that the employee would still have lost his employment."
The second consideration is perhaps of particular importance in redundancy cases. An industrial tribunal may conclude, as in the instant case, that the appropriate procedural steps would not have avoided the employee's dismissal as redundant. But if, as your Lordships now hold, that conclusion does not defeat his claim of unfair dismissal, the industrial tribunal, apart from any question of compensation, will also have to consider whether to make any order under section 69 of the Act of 1978. It is noteworthy that an industrial tribunal may, if it thinks fit, make an order for re- engagement under that section and in so doing exercise a very wide discretion as to the terms of the order. In a case where an industrial tribunal held that dismissal on the ground of redundancy would have been inevitable at the time when it took place, even if the appropriate procedural steps had been taken, I do not, as at present advised, think this would necessarily preclude a discretionary order for re-engagement on suitable terms, if the altered circumstances considered by the tribunal at the date of the hearing were thought to justify it.For these reasons and for those given by my noble and learned friend the Lord Chancellor I would allow the appeal and remit the case to be heard by another industrial tribunal.

LORD BRANDON OF OAKBROOK

My Lords,I have had the advantage of reading in draft the speech delivered by my noble and learned friend, on the Woolsack. I agree with it, and for the reasons which he gives I would allow the appeal and remit the case to a new industrial tribunal.

LORD ACKNER

My Lords,I have had the advantage of reading in draft the speech delivered by my noble and learned friend on the Woolsack, . I agree with it, and for the reasons which he gives I would allow the appeal and remit the case to a new industrial tribunal.

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