“I have enquired about the break costs on the£1m TBL and this is currently£94,530 . Obviously this will vary over time however at least this gives you some idea.”
“the Parties agree, confirm and acknowledge that the [reconciliation file] matching the Transactions entered into by Party A and Party B [i.e. CB and NAB] shall severally constitute a Confirmation in respect of each relevant Transaction addressed by such [reconciliation file] without further action on behalf of either Party, and each such Confirmation will supplement, form part of, and be subject to this Agreement and all provisions in this Agreement will govern the Confirmation except as modified therein.”
“RBT does derivative trade with NBLT [i.e., NAB London Treasury]”, and “Infinity will automatically generate Confirmation re: trade between NAB, London and Regional Bank”. (2) Another NAB document, headed “Tailored Business Loans; Roles & Responsibilities”, dated February 2002 contained similar references. After describing the procedure for the regional bank (i.e., in this case, CB) entering into a TBL with a customer, the document states: “RMS does derivative trade with SIRP”
“…the original business case written to approve the selling of TBL’s confirmed to the COO’s of the Regional Banks that TBL’s would be hedged on a back to back basis and that no risk would be taken (i.e. that the loan and the derivative would be matched). It was on this basis that the TBL product suite was approved.”
“… the obligation of CB to pay NAB the break cost due under the swap was entirely distinct from and not dependent on the customer’s repayment of the FRTBL. If a customer defaulted and failed to repay its FRTBL, the break cost was still due from CB to NAB. While CB was owned by NAB, from my perspective it operated as a separate bank, and the break costs (or gain) associated with the swaps represented a real cost (or gain) as between the banks.”
“You acknowledge that in order to provide you with a Hedged Facility, we or any of our Affiliates will have entered into an arrangement with a third party to hedge our risk to fluctuations in interest rates (a “Hedging Arrangement”) on the assumptions that: (a) You will utilise the Hedged Facility strictly in accordance with any Requests; and (b) You will make payments to us strictly in accordance with your obligations under the Loan Documents.”
“Any certificate or determination by us of a rate or amount under a Loan Document is, in the absence of manifest error, conclusive of the matters to which it relates.”
“Where the only question is the relevant date for taking the market price, the financial consequences of the breach may be said to “crystallise” at that date. But where, after that date, some supervening event occurs which shows that that neither the original contract (had it continued) nor the notional substitute contract at the market price would ever have been performed, the concept of “crystallising” the assessment of damages at that price is unhelpful.”
“i. Interest payable should be fixed for the full term of the loan (the fixed rate period) at a rate determined by the bank and notified to the partnership at or about the day of drawdown of the loan. ii. In addition to any prepayment costs payable under para. 9, the partnership shall indemnify the bank on demand against any cost, loss, expenses or liability (including loss of profit and opportunity costs) which the bank incurs as a result of the repayment of the loan during the fixed rate period or any further period during which the rate of interest applicable to the loan is fixed.”
“Thus it is, it seems to me, that, if the bank is to be indemnified in respect of an expense, the expense must have been incurred.”
“…if it had been intended that the lender should be entitled to recover a sum in respect of a future loss then the clause would not have referred to the word “incurs” but would have used words or words to the effect of “incurs or to be incurred”.”
“It is difficult to see how it is that the borrower can be expected to indemnify the bank on demand in respect of a loss that has not yet been incurred.”
“As I have emphasised already in the course of this judgment, the defendant is not recovering damages for breach of contract and thus the rules which would apply for the assessment of future losses in a breach of contract have no direct application to the issue I am now considering. In other contexts where contingent or future losses of uncertain value have to be valued then express statutory or contractual provisions are put in place to enable that to be done. In this particular context, for example, it would have been possible to set out a detailed formula, or even possibly a table, from which any repayment of sums for future loss interest could become ascertained easily and without controversy between the parties. That course was not adopted. It seems to me that the word “loss” is a word of ordinary English meaning and which can only mean a loss which has been suffered at the time when demand is made for an indemnity in respect of it.”
“It also remains necessary, however, to recognise that a vital part of the setting in which parties’ contract is a framework of rights and obligations established by the common law (and often now codified in statute). These comprise duties imposed by the law of tort and also norms of commerce which have come to be recognised as ordinary incidents of particular types of contract or relationship and which often take the form of terms implied in the contract by law. Although its strength will vary according to the circumstances of the case, the court in construing the contract starts from the assumption that in the absence of clear words the parties did not intend the contract to derogate from these normal rights and obligations.”
“Since the obligations implied by law in a commercial contract are those which, by judicial consensus over the years or by Parliament in passing a statute, have been regarded as obligations which a reasonable businessman would realise that he was accepting when he entered into a contract of a particular kind, the court’s view of the reasonableness of any departure from the implied obligations which would be involved in construing the express words of an exclusion clause in one sense that they are capable of bearing rather than another, is a relevant consideration in deciding what meaning the words were intended by the parties to bear.”
“in circumstances where there are so many potentially arguable issues which may arise, in relation to both out-of-scope costs and excluded costs, it would be most surprising for the parties to agree that they could be determined conclusively by the landlord without representation or recourse, including in relation to issues as to the landlord’s own negligence.”
“what we calculate to be the costs and losses we have suffered as a result of an economic cost event occurring. These costs and losses include, but are not limited to, agreements and other arrangements in connection with a loss or reduction of return or other costs associated with changes in market interest rates or the termination or reversing of any other agreement or arrangement entered into by us (either generally or in the course of our business or specifically in connection with this agreement) to fix or limit our effective cost of funding in relation to the facility with you.”
“Economic Costs are calculated on the basis of the change in cashflows to us as a result of any alteration to or cancellation of a TBL. Taking the Fixed Rate TBL as an example, in calculating the Economic Cost on a Fixed Rate TBL, we would calculate today's value of the outstanding interest payable by you at the rate agreed under the Fixed Rate TBL Offer Letter. We would then calculate today's value of interest that could be earned by us if we were to reinvest the funds for the remaining period of time, ie from the time you have requested to break the facility to the original expiry date agreed to in the Fixed Rate TBL Offer Letter. The rate of this calculation is based on the market rate for the remaining term of your facility on the day you have requested to break the original facility. The difference between these two values then determines whether there is an Economic Cost or benefit to you from breaking this facility. If the value of interest which could have been earned by the bank for the remaining period of your facility is less than the value of the interest owed by you under the agreement then you will pay us an Economic Cost. If the opposite is true, then we will pay you an economic benefit.”
“fraud is proved when it is shown that a false representation has been made (1) knowingly; (2) without belief in its truth; or (3) recklessly, careless whether it be true or false. Although I have treated the second and third as distinct cases, I think the third is but an instance of the second, for one who makes a statement under such circumstances can have no real belief in the truth of what he states. To prevent a false statement from being fraudulent, there must, I think, always be an honest belief in its truth.”
“It compares the Interest Rate on your Fixed Rate Loan schedule, to current market rates for the same schedule & term. It is therefore the difference in the interest payments falling due under the Fixed Rate Loan, in comparison to those achievable in the current market, which provide the cost to exit the Fixed Rate”. (2) It was what Mr Campbell told the Court of Session in the case brought by Mr Glare: he said that break costs represented “the difference between what a customer is paying and the market interest rates at that time”. (3) It was the explanation given in both the draft “case specific” explanation of break costs approved by a “Project Control Board” (“PCB”) established in 2013 (which, as described in the Appendix, confusingly described the calculation as if there were bi-lateral cashflows as under a swap) and in the version of that explanation provided to Farol, which contained essentially the same calculation, but without using the language of a swap. It was also the explanation contained in the draft letter to the FSA placed before the PCB meeting, but which was later excised from the letter: this made clear that there was no back-to-back swap, but nevertheless described the “economic consequences” for the bank if the loan was repaid early in terms of the bank being required to utilise funds returned early at a lower rate than that provided for in the contract with the customer. (4) It was the explanation provided in the briefing note for Mr Thorburn’s evidence to the Treasury Committee: “In simplest terms the Bank looks at the interest rate at which the protection was set within the loan and the prevailing rate at the point the loan contract is broken by the customer. If the prevailing rate is lower than that applied to the loan a cost arises. The bank calculates this cost over the remaining term of the fixed interest protection to establish what the overall cost of the break is … If the Bank does not pass on this cost to the customer when a loan is repaid before the period for which the loan is fixed then there is an economic cost to the Bank.”
“if there is a value in a transaction one party has a positive, one party has a negative. So when you break the transaction, somebody will be enhanced -- enriched and somebody will be losing money and therefore whilst you cannot identify necessarily a equal and opposite NAB trade with the market, you are actually saying that within the overall book there is a profit and loss relevant to that transaction that is on their books.”
“I’m slightly confused at the issue of this because the bank chose to hedge it immediately to NAB. The bank didn’t need to hedge that if they didn’t want to, but they chose to do it. That was their choice. If the client − if they hadn’t hedged that back-to-back or swap and the client broke at the same time, the cost would have been the exact same basis, because there’s two cash flows, there’s − they’re saying: what would that loan cost today, what would it cost when you took it out, and we want the difference between those two on a net present value. So the swap is a good way of getting what that price is, but in reality, whether the Clydesdale had done a swap or didn’t do a swap is irrelevant based on, the breakage cost is worked out on two cash flows, rather than a swap in itself. But because of the way that the bank worked, there was that equal swap and there would be a swap broken at the same time.”
“It has occurred to my clients that if for example Clydesdale was to now forego any claim to entitlement to or to charge any break fee at redemption through Lloyds Bank, then that would undoubtedly be given due consideration by my clients in determining if how and when to proceed with any claim against Clydesdale.”
“And so we were going out and talking to banks, but there was very little appetite at that point from banks to take on new customers. All they were doing, from my recollection of that period of time, was all they were doing was hankering down and building their balance sheets up.”
“…it takes the present value of the floating rate and compares this to the present value of the fixed rate for each period until the end of the term. The difference is the break cost or gain. Rates are taken off the GBP yield curve which gives rates from 1 month to 60 years, these rates change on a daily basis with market factors such as political and economic news affecting the curve plus [o]f course any movements or potential movements in Interest/LIBOR rates.”
“Having dug into our current position and repayment schedules I see no way of us improving our cash flow situation with a full repayment period of 15 years. We currently have 15-year agreements with bullet repayments on completion. This along with increased interest rates would put us in a tougher place than remaining where we are.”
“As well as providing a solution to our immediate funding requirements the sale of Mill Lane would rationalise the Janhill portfolio, which, with the exception of 9 Chester Rd. would become exclusively commercial in its make up and, we believe, would prove to be a much more marketable proposition in the future.”
“I just trusted the bank to charge us the right amounts.”
“…that report that got commissioned by Lloyds highlighted to us that any rise in interest rates was gonna be fairly catastrophic to our business.”
“(1) The defendant has a defence to the extent that— (a) the defendant’s position has changed as a consequence of, or in anticipatory reliance on, obtaining the benefit, and (b) the change is such that the defendant would be worse off by making restitution than if the defendant had not obtained, or relied in anticipation on obtaining, the benefit. (2) But the defendant does not have this defence if— (a) the change of position— (i) was made in bad faith, or (ii) involved significant criminal illegality, or (iii) constituted the taking a risk with loaned money, or (b) the weight to be attached to the unjust factor is greater than that to be attached to the change of position (as, for example, where the unjust factor is the unlawful obtaining of a benefit by a public authority).”
“I can find nothing in that summary which would deny the Banks a change of position case where they had entered into back-to-back transactions by which they assumed (conditional) payment obligations in anticipatory reliance of receiving essentially the same payments from Venice. Indeed, the routine and objectively foreseeable nature of that anticipatory reliance, and its “back-to-back” nature (with the Banks’ anticipatory reliance essentially mirroring the anticipated receipts) would seem to make this a paradigm case for the availability of the defence of change of position.”
“in relation to any Loan, the fixed rate of interest agreed by you and us by reference to which interest will be calculated on that Loan”
“If I had known that there was additional hidden margin…”
“But an omelette is based on eggs. It’s still eggs. It’s the same thing, surely. It’s based on market rates, it’s market rates. As far as I’m concerned, it’s market rates. I don’t know how the basing on, whatever it is −−sorry, I shouldn’t bring it to a courtroom, that sort of simile. But that is what −−we see that as being a market rate, and “based on market rates” is our assumption, as poor tractor dealers, that it’s a market rate that we’re dealing with.”
“Assuming that you mean to keep the loan repaid over the 15 years, but only fix the rate for the first 10 years, the Cost of Funds today would be 6.65% plus 1% lending.”
“No, no we would have stuck with the fixed rate.”
“[l]ooking at the margins of other banks to get a feel for it, 1% seemed a fair rate at the time”
“I never had -- I wouldn't have actually asked for the exact journey that that money came from or that fixed rate, because it was implied all the way through that: the margin was the only thing that could be negotiated. That was the only thing. Whether it was implied through wording, whether it was implied in conversation, whether it was because the other thing was called market rate, it all led toward the margin being negotiated. Not the fixed rate.”
“Steven Coward basically swallowed the point two difference and the only way to do that was to take it out of his margin. So it was made very clear to us that the margin was for them and the rest of it was down to the market.”
“But they were our trusted partner and I assumed that those rates that they were giving me, based on conversations and emails, that they were either market rate or cost of funds.”
“my belief is [i.e., referring to what he now thinks] that that’s what it cost them and therefore that’s what it was costing us.”
“Well, I think -- the thing that has shocked me more than anything in dealing with this -- I'm not trying -- I'm trying to -- I just want to put a point across here that I trusted what was going on, and if I was entered into that again, I would have paid more money for transparency. I would’ve done, okay.”
“Rates are based on market prices that may change instantaneously and will not be firm until dealt on a recorded Dealing Room telephone line.”
“Feel that a Cost of Funds at 7.5% would be suitable as a budget level.” iv) On16 September 2002 , a further strategy letter was sent to David Gittins. This provided four options, for which different Fixed Rates were identified. As with the letter from December 2001, the accompanying graph for each option showed both the Fixed Rate (“rate you pay”) and “LIBOR (market) rate”
“I can’t remember 2002”
“I might not have done, no.”
“If we had understood that the fixed rates were not just the day’s market rate, we would have preferred to have stuck with variable rate loans with known margins of between 1.25% and 1.5% (as we had previously).”
“Q. And let's be more specific: that's why Janhill Ltd did take fixed rate loans, isn't it? A. Yeah, I mean there are times when you may look at the market and you think it's incredibly high and it's only going to come down, so you might take a variable rate yes. But generally that would be the case, yes.”
“Customer mentioned they did not want any other product offering as want the certainty of repayments – therefore just want to focus on the fixed rate offering.”
“therefore, when [CB] quoted a lower margin, given our understanding that the fixed rate was the market rate that would mean the overall figure for the loan would in fact be lower.”
“what are the implications to us when we fix?”
“…as you know a fixed deal does produce some income for the bank and what I was simply saying is that this would be recognised with any pricing negotiations/decisions made.”
“for indication purposes we would be looking at some 2% above 1 month Libor (currently 0.53%) or 2% over ‘Cost Of Funds’ for a fixed rate loan – as at today that would give a 5 year fixed rate of say 5.7%”
“LIBOR is a mystery to me. And it still is. But as Mr Martin explained, it was the lending of money from one bank to another. Quite how that is different, I don’t know.”
“He could have, but that wasn’t what I understood.”
“Not only in Treasury Solutions. It was a wording I’d come across in banking before. Others using it.”
“And doesn’t “Cost Of Funds” means the cost to a bank of borrowing funds? Isn’t that the banking meaning, that term?”, to which he replied: A. Generally, yes, that’s the cost of obtaining funds for the bank, for loan account borrowing, asset finance borrowing or other borrowing products, normally.”
“I explained to him that that was a number that was given to me essentially by the Treasury Solutions partner, to which we needed to add the 2%, as it turned out to be, margin.”
“Well, I’ve used cost of funds, and don’t believe that we had any detailed discussions exactly as to what those cost of funds were.”) It was, however, consistent with the comment in his witness statement as to what he thinks he would have done at the time, if he had been asked by a customer about the Fixed Rate: “I would simply say that the fixed rate was the rate advised by the TS representative on the date the FRTBL was entered into. I generally tried to avoid discussions like that because the specifics of the fixed rate were part of the TS Partner’s role which I did not want to encroach on.”
“Q. So you say you understood it to be the number, the fixed rate they're going to get, part of what they're going to pay, but you also say, as you said earlier, that the general meaning in the banking industry and what you have explained to the Uglows is: that is the bank's cost of borrowing? A. Yeah, I -- it's the cost of the bank getting the money to give to the Uglows in the marketplace.”
“yes, and delivering those to be available to Mr Uglow”
“Well, simply getting them from the marketplace, something has to be done to get them to the Uglows, and there’s going to be some transaction costs involved in doing that or delivery costs involved in doing that.”
“That’s a figure, yeah, that had been paid across as treasury income based on the deals that I’d done”
“How the reward got to us, if you like, I didn’t understand. I knew that it came through somewhere between 35, 40 basis points typically.”
“I knew there was reward paid into my bonus pot from it. Exactly how that rate had been worked out, I didn’t really concern myself with.”
“I did not. It was a number given to me by the treasury partners and I wasn’t aware of what the component parts of that were.”
“I knew they went to a computer screen and picked a number, but how they then interpreted that number and what they did to that number, I wasn’t aware of. It just came to me as this is the −−what I call the cost of funds, the 2 −point whatever it was −−3.04% scenario.”
“I was aware that we got rewarded in terms of the 35 basis points, as it’s saying there … I wasn’t aware that 35 basis points was a direct add-on to the market rate. I was aware that when the market rate and whatever was sold to customers I was rewarded with 35 basis points towards my bonus pot.”
“I knew 35 basis points came into the calculations, but I wasn’t aware at the time that it was, if you like, the added margin. I was rewarded with 35 basis points, but assumed that that was just a nominal token payment for having done the fixed rate.”
“It is, I think, clear that the plaintiffs did not desire that anyone should be defrauded. In agreeing with the defendants, they did not have any such desire as their real purpose.”
“The conclusion thus reached is one that may seem unfortunate for the plaintiffs, for I gain the impression that they did not pause to realize the significance and the implications of what they were asked to do. There was evidence that the practice of giving indemnities upon the issuing of clean bills of lading is not uncommon.”
“Some of the considerations to which I have referred may denote that in this particular case the plaintiffs, not being actuated by bad intentions, did not realize the viciousness of the transaction.”
“They did so at the defendant’s request without, as it seems to me, properly considering the implications of what they were doing.”
“Here the plaintiffs intended their misrepresentation to deceive, although they did not intend that the party deceived should ultimately go without any just compensation.”
“It suggests that in there, yes. I would have used the term VA, but yes.”
“Most important to yourselves V/A generation”
“my view at the time was that it was an additional service that was provided by NAB, and any bank, any business would have some income in that service to -- you know, in order to provide it to customers.”
“I mean, the bank, being a business, would charge for that service.”
“We don’t want to make it more complicated but the cost of funds is the basis, the basic cost on which we will add the lending margin for this fixed period.”
“I wouldn’t say he’s not being told the truth, because the customer is aware, the terminology that his margin is his lending margin, and the fixed rate payable is the fixed rate payable.”
“A. It depends how you look on the −−like, as I said, the information that was presented to the customer, that we separated things into lending margin and fixed rate. I do agree that clearly we haven’t expressively said there is a margin on top of the fixed rate, because we were classing it as a fixed rate. Q. But the only margin or profit, whatever you try to call it, that the customer knows about is the 1.25% that’s in his facility letter? A. They’re aware that’s the lending margin. Q. That’s the only margin the customer is aware of, isn’t it, Mrs Ellis? A. Yes, yes, and the fixed rate.”
“It was – yes, a market rate, yes”
“that was the rate in which [CB] would offer the customer for the period of time the customer is looking to fix for.”
“A. It wasn’t necessarily NAB’s involvement. Q. What was it then? A. It was the market −−you know, the market rate in which we were willing to offer the fixed rate at. So it was a cost of delivering that solution for the customer. Q. It was a market rate plus the added value plus the additional margin, wasn’t it, Mrs Ellis? A. It was a market rate which I took from the pricing model so I can’t say whether it was a market rate that we were actually −−that was, like, on the market at that point in time, because we used a pricing model to be able to determine what that rate was.”
“okay, so that’s as Amy confirmed with you?”
“I will go ahead and lock these in if you’re happy for me to do so.”
“Q. So I’m putting to you, because I just want this to be clear, that at that time, you must have known that what you were communicating on that call −−which is standard practice, I’m not saying you did anything different −− is that there are two components to the overall rate. There’s an agreed margin and there’s a fixed rate which is just a market rate which is being locked in with the traders? A. Correct. Q. And you didn’t have any reason to think that Rob Uglow would’ve understood it any differently? A. No reason to understand that he would think differently.”
“that’s not how I would have described it. So even if I was having a discussion with a customer about how much income was being taken or what rate we were providing, I don’t think I would say: so your actual margin is 2.4% … I think I’ve never really thought of it in that way…”
“…yes, it was a sales process. Yes, it was a way of making income for the bank”
“So it was a sales process, so we were selling our product and we made money from selling that product. That was the reality.”
“i) The burden of proof is on the claimant because section 32 constitutes an exception to the ordinary regime: see Paragon Finance v Thakerar[1999] 1 All ER 400 at 418 per Millett LJ (endorsed in FII at [203]); ii) The claimant must be “on notice” of the need to investigate whether there has been fraud and/or concealment. This is sometimes referred to as a trigger. This can be engaged whether or not the claimant has actual knowledge of it, so long as the claimant could with reasonable diligence have discovered the trigger: see OT Computers v Infineon Technologies AG[2021] EWCA Civ 501 at [47]: “…Although some of the cases have spoken in terms of reasonable diligence only being required once the claimant is on notice that there is something to investigate (the “trigger”), it is more accurate to say that the requirement of reasonable diligence applies throughout. At the first stage the claimant must be reasonably attentive so that he becomes aware (or is treated as becoming aware) of the things which a reasonably attentive person in his position would learn. At the second stage, he is taken to know those things which a reasonably diligent investigation would then reveal”. iii) The meaning of the words “could with reasonable diligence”: The Supreme Court in FII endorsed as “authoritative guidance” the following statement by Millett LJ in Paragon at 418: “The question is not whether the plaintiffs should have discovered the fraud sooner; but whether they could with reasonable diligence have done so. The burden of proof is on them. They must establish that they could not have discovered the fraud without exceptional measures which they could not reasonably have been expected to take…In the course of argument May LJ observed that reasonable diligence must be measured against some standard, but that the six-year limitation period did not provide the relevant standard. He suggested that the test was how a person carrying on a business of the relevant kind would act if he had adequate but not unlimited staff and resources and were motivated by a reasonable but not excessive sense of urgency. I respectfully agree.” “…Although some of the cases have spoken in terms of reasonable diligence only being required once the claimant is on notice that there is something to investigate (the “trigger”), it is more accurate to say that the requirement of reasonable diligence applies throughout. At the first stage the claimant must be reasonably attentive so that he becomes aware (or is treated as becoming aware) of the things which a reasonably attentive person in his position would learn. At the second stage, he is taken to know those things which a reasonably diligent investigation would then reveal”. “The question is not whether the plaintiffs should have discovered the fraud sooner; but whether they could with reasonable diligence have done so. The burden of proof is on them. They must establish that they could not have discovered the fraud without exceptional measures which they could not reasonably have been expected to take…In the course of argument May LJ observed that reasonable diligence must be measured against some standard, but that the six-year limitation period did not provide the relevant standard. He suggested that the test was how a person carrying on a business of the relevant kind would act if he had adequate but not unlimited staff and resources and were motivated by a reasonable but not excessive sense of urgency. I respectfully agree.”
“iv. What level of attentiveness to publicity about phone-hacking or the cause of her injury is it reasonable in the circumstances to expect the claimant to have had? v. Was there anything of which the claimant became aware that put her on notice that she should investigate or inquire further? vi. Was there something to which the claimant should reasonably have been attentive that would have put her on notice to investigate or inquire further? vii. If the claimant was not misled, or ceased to be misled, what publicity can a reasonably attentive claimant actively seeking to investigate her losses be expected to have been aware of?”
“James Moore – 50% now and then monthly”
“We are also concerned at what we believe to be an embedded swap arrangement the sole purpose of which was to force my clients to render more fees and income unto Clydesdale”
“Dear All, Here is a link to a website that shows a historical record of interest rates at a glance … Here is an FT link that enables you to look up historical swap rates of any term and on any date… If you had a fixed or partially fixed rate product through a TBL, by using these links you can see what was happening to swap interest rates on the completion date of your loan. Don't forget to look at the swap rate that corresponds to the term of your TBL and not the LIBOR rate. The swap rate is the rate that the treasury team at NAB would have used. After looking up my own rate, I could see that the rate that was given by the trading floor to the treasury salesman was approx 0.5% higher than the rate shown using the FT link. I am not sure if there is a technical reason that will eventually explain this, but at first view, it looks like the trading floor were adding 0.5% onto the market swap rate for their own benefit.”
“The date we became aware of the true nature of break costs and their volatility and then consequently to think that the loan had been mis-sold was28th May 2012 ”
“Thanks for getting the bank to confirm that there were no micro hedges. This is what we suspected all along. The next issue is this. Two law firms, including Balfour Manson, have confirmed that the bank will not be able to enforce the transfer of a breakage penalty if there was no micro hedge assigned to the loan. This is because section 8.2 of the banks T&Cs refer to "costs" and not to a specific penalty (such as a percentage of the loan as with domestic mortgages). Assuming that they are right about this, then all TBL customers will be able to move to a new bank without incurring a breakage penalty and claim damages (both direct and consequential) for what has been in effect an illegal "lock in". By admitting this, whilst trying to support their argument for exclusion from FSA scrutiny, have now brought the next part of the battle forward, which is now a question of law, which has been answered already by two independent law firms. We now require either an admission by the bank (unlikely) or FSA or FOS intervention in response to the bank trying to make an SME liable for a breakage cost which does not exist.”
“Question: If the TBL is not linked to an identifiable and distinct swap arrangement, then how can the bank declare a cost? It has been confirmed by two law firms who specialise in commercial litigation that the bank will be unable to “determine” a cost in a court of law and therefore no cost is enforceable. Therefore, the bank is unable to enforce any TBL breakage penalties.”
“(1) The court may make an order under section 140B in connection with a credit agreement if it determines that the relationship between the creditor and the debtor arising out of the agreement (or the agreement taken with any related agreement) is unfair to the debtor because of one or more of the following– (a) any of the terms of the agreement or of any related agreement; (b) the way in which the creditor has exercised or enforced any of his rights under the agreement or any related agreement; (c) any other thing done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, the creditor (either before or after the making of the agreement or any related agreement). (2) In deciding whether to make a determination under this section the court shall have regard to all matters it thinks relevant (including matters relating to the creditor and matters relating to the debtor). (3) For the purposes of this section the court shall (except to the extent that it is not appropriate to do so) treat anything done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, or in relation to, an associate or a former associate of the creditor as if done (or not done) by, or on behalf of, or in relation to, the creditor. (4) A determination may be made under this section in relation to a relationship notwithstanding that the relationship may have ended.”
“A sufficiently extreme inequality of knowledge and understanding is a classic source of unfairness in any relationship between a creditor and a non-commercial debtor. It is a question of degree. Mrs Plevin must be taken to have known that some commission would be payable to intermediaries out of the premium before it reached the insurer. The fact was stated in the FISA borrowers’ guide and, given that she was not paying LLP for their services, there was no other way that they could have been remunerated. But at some point commissions may become so large that the relationship cannot be regarded as fair if the customer is kept in ignorance. At what point is difficult to say, but wherever the tipping point may lie the commissions paid in this case are a long way beyond it. Mrs Plevin’s evidence, as recorded by the recorder, was that if she had known that 71.8% of the premium would be paid out in commissions, she would have “certainly questioned this.”
“that is a market price for£50 million on a six-monthly rollover basis. That would be it. But if the bank only did that, they would go bust, because they've got huge amounts of cost to deal in the market and those things.”
“Any reasonable person in her position who was told that more than two thirds of the premium was going to intermediaries, would be bound to question whether the insurance represented value for money, and whether it was a sensible transaction to enter into. The fact that she was left in ignorance in my opinion made the relationship unfair.”
“62% as a result of Nigel’s Uglow deal c.58k income. More to go in the next two weeks am hoping we will be at 67% by the end of next week. That puts us just behind Oxford on the SW plan board. Oxford are at 73%”
“I could have put in 35%, but then you’re sort of underselling yourself in terms of expectation, when you’re trying to garner support for the area director for the pricing sign-off.”
“I have been over and over this and have changed many times. I only hope the word “have” does not bring this whole case down around I [sic] ears, otherwise the legal team will be in the dock themselves”
“The borrower agreed to the predefined interest rate profile for the full term. If this is to be exited before maturity, the current market value of the interest rate profile is combined with the accrued interest on the loan. The current market value of the interest rate profile will typically be positive to the borrower (i.e. a break benefit) if interest rates have risen since the deal date, and negative to the borrower (a break cost) if applicable interest rates have fallen since the deal date. In this case interest rates have fallen, and the current market value of the future interest rate profile is a cost to the borrower.”
“clearly the customer has not understood that we are not going to provide him with information of how we have hedged his trades, as this is done on a portfolio level as mentioned in the response pre-Xmas”
“The reference to these obligations in the T&Cs is only there to assist the customer in their understanding of why break costs apply to their transaction.”
“In respect of the hedging arrangement, the background to this is that Clydesdale arranges an interest rate protection product with a customer. Clydesdale's parent company, National Australia Bank, then buys itself protection for this product. However, there is no direct single contract entered into in the market that mirrors CB's deal with you. NAB aggregates CB hedges in large numbers and goes to the markets on that basis. Our TBL documentation and the TBL strategy papers you would have received make it clear that, in order to be able to offer an interest rate protection product, CB has to enter into a transaction with the financial markets to protect itself. The mechanics of how CB does this are commercially sensitive and confidential to CB.”
“Q …I think that there was at one stage a public statement on behalf of the bank to the effect that the bank does not micro hedge and what it does is macro hedge. A. That's right. It's our portfolio management of interest rate risk that I have just explained. Q. And that is what is meant by macro hedging? A. Yes.”
“They [i.e. NAB] take all of the bank’s overall sterling interest rate risk from tailored business loans and any other transactions on the day and they trade that daily.”
“it’s the difference between the interest rate that a person's paying and the interest rate in the market if we were to buy a similar amount of funds at that time.”
“Unlike standalone IRHP products, fixed rate TBLs provide SME customers with a single cash flow. Customers with fixed rate loans are not contracted into a swap or any other derivative in the market. Instead, in order to be able to provide customers with fixed rate payments, the bank considers whether it is necessary to take action to hedge its overall risk in the wholesale money market. However, when it does this, it does so on an aggregated, bank-wide basis. Fixed rate TBLs are not linked to an identifiable and distinct swap arrangement. I have attached samples of the information that we provide to customers who take out fixed rate TBLs. You will see that these explain the economic consequences if the fixed rate loan is broken early. Generally speaking, if interest rates are higher than when the fixed rate TBL was agreed, the customer would receive a payment equal to the benefit that the bank would gain. However, if interest rates are lower at the point the contract is broken than when the fixed rate TBL was agreed there would be a cost incurred by the bank that is passed on to the customer. These costs result from the difference in the cost of the funds that the bank secured to lend to its customers compared to the cost of funds at the time of repayment. In the current low interest rate environment, this means that the bank has to utilise any funds that have been returned early at a lower return than when they were first made available to customers. This is different to the break costs associated with standalone products, which become payable because a distinct, identifiable swap linked to the loan is broken. While the main differences between standalone IRHPs and fixed rate TBLs mainly relate to cashflow and how risk is hedged by the bank, there are other differences too.”
“Fixed rate TBLs are not linked to an identifiable and distinct swap arrangement, and fixed rate TBL customers are not contracted into a swap or any other derivative in the market.”
“The following cash flow shows the calculation of a break cost on the Fixed Rate Tailored Business Loan in the name of ABC Limited. You paid a fixed rate at x.xx% and on the xx xx 20xx (the date in which we were instructed to terminate the Fixed Rate) there were xx months left until expiry, being the xx xx 20xx. The cash flow shows the notional amount, fixed rate, the monthly rollover dates, and then two columns showing the interest payable by you at the fixed rate. The first column (PV Disc) is the NPV of each of the fixed interest amounts payable. The next two columns show the interest you would receive on an equal and opposite transaction at current rates; again the PV Disc column shows the NPV. The Current Rates column shows the interest rate applicable for each roll period at current rates and the final column DF shows the discount factor applied to calculate the NPV. The break cost is calculated by taking the total of the PV Disc- fixed column (£xx,xxx.xx payable by you) and deducting the total of the PV Disc- current column (£xx,xxx.xx payable to you) to give the net break cost of £xx,xxx.xx.”
“When you enter into a Tailored Business Loan and decide to close out the transaction before its scheduled maturity date you may have to pay breakage costs or you may receive a break gain, dependent upon subsequent market movements. Any cost or gain will be calculated by reference to prevailing market conditions. These break costs may be substantial. The following cash flow shows the calculation of a break cost on the Fixed Rate Tailored Business Loan in the name of FAROL HOLDINGS LIMITED TBL (IFX32825). Your Fixed Rate TBL has a fixed rate of 5.81% and expiry date of26/01/2022 . The cash flow shows the repaid amount, your fixed rate, the interest payment dates, and the interest that is due to be paid on those dates. The following columns show the Present Value (PV) of those future interest payments (PV Fixed), the current expectation for LIBOR for that interest period (Forward Rates), the interest that would be payable at each of those interest rates (Interest Payable - Forward), the PV of those interest amounts (PV Forward) and finally the Discount Factor (OF) which is used to calculate the PV. The break cost is calculated by taking the total of the PV Fixed column, shown in cell M3 (£344,592.52 that you would have paid for the Fixed Rate TBL) and deducting the total of the PV Forward column, shown in cell N3 (£102,204.68 that the bank will receive when applying those funds elsewhere) to give the net break cost of£242,387.83 . Definition of 'Present Value - PV' The current worth of a future sum of money or stream of cash flows given a specified rate of return. Future cash flows are discounted at the discount rate, and the higher the discount rate, the lower the present value of the future cash flows. Determining the appropriate discount rate is the key to properly valuing future cash flows, whether they are earnings or obligations. Also referred to as "discounted value". Definition of 'Net Present Value - NPV' The difference between the present value of cash inflows and the present value of cash outflows.”
“…NAB stated that, having borrowed the money it lent on fixed terms, it was itself locked into the life of loans in question so that if loans were terminated early or interest rates reduced, then NAB faced additional costs. NAB stated that break costs were not penalties as such but were the economic costs it faced when fixed rate business loans were repaid early or went into default. NAB argued that in most cases the loans under discussion would not have been financed individually but would have been funded by Yorkshire Bank or Clydesdale Bank through drawing from loans negotiated by the banks in the money markets. … This was macro-hedging, not micro-hedging, and this is why NAB had not included tailored business loans in the current review of interest rate hedging products. NAB has subsequently stated that: ‘Fixed rate TBLs are not linked to an identifiable and distinct swap arrangement, and fixed rate TBL customers are not contracted into a swap or any other derivative in the market.’ At the meeting, however, I had understood that while there might not be a one for one match between each smaller TBL and each identifiable swap arrangement there is a link between a swap arrangement and a number of TBLs, NAB’s standard terms and conditions being invoked to have customers fund [these] swap arrangements…”
“So are all your fixed rate loans hedged on an aggregate across this book or individually? The vast majority of our fixed rate loans are hedged on an aggregated basis. However, there are a small number where we have hedged individual loans. However, I would stress that the product works in exactly the same way for customers regardless.” … “How are break costs calculated? In simplest terms the Bank looks at the interest rate at which the protection was set within the loan and the prevailing rate at the point the loan contract is broken by the customer. If the prevailing rate is lower than that applied to the loan a cost arises. The bank calculates this cost over the remaining term of the fixed interest protection to establish what the overall cost of the break is. Conversely, if the prevailing rate is higher than that fixed within the loan a gain arises which is passed to the customer at the point at which the loan is broken. If you don’t apply break costs when someone terminates a loan early would this result in a loss to the Bank? This would depend on the specific loan and when it was taken out. The Bank would look at the rate at which the interest rate protection was set and the prevailing rate at the point the contract was broken. If the prevailing rate is lower than that applied to the loan a cost arises. If the Bank does not pass on this cost to the customer when a loan is repaid before the period for which the loan is fixed then there is an economic cost to the Bank. Conversely if the prevailing rate is higher than that set within the loan fix a gain arises which is passed to the customer. Do you make a profit from break costs? No, break costs represent the cost to the Bank of a customer breaking their agreement before the loan has reached maturity or the period for which the loan was fixed. In the event there is a break gain at the time the loan is broken the Bank passes this to the customer…”
“The crux of the matter here is break costs is it not. Do you deny that many customers would not have entered into these loans either at all or for the periods they did if they had been aware of the potential break costs? We believe that neither the Bank nor our customers could have reasonably predicted that interest rates would fall to their current level and remain there for such a prolonged period.”
“If I thought there was a problem in this area I would have been all over it like a rash, you know. If you look at my track record at the bank, and we had many problems, everything else, bigger problems than this, if someone flagged a problem, I got involved in it, it would be transparently reported to everyone. We would pay whatever price we had to and we would deal with it. There’s no incentive for me here to try and hide something, sweep something under the carpet. None at all.”
“Well, there was no embedded derivative. That was the point. And I think there was an awful lot of energy around whether there was one or not. And there's no -- certainly at that point in time there was no clear definition of what an embedded swap or derivative was, and I think there was a lot of confusion in people's minds as to -- and a lot of inconsistent language and so on which was unhelpful in that period. The view that we took was, if the customer does not contractually enter into a swap or a derivative as part of that TBL, there's no embedded derivative. And that was the position we took.”
“You know -- I'm sorry, but I was running a bank in the middle of a banking crisis then. I was also on the group executive of NAB and travelling regularly to Australia. I did not have the time to concentrate on wordsmithing letters to customers. I had to rely on the people around me, on the risk management control frameworks, on problems being highlighted to me. With this product range at the time, there are alarm bells going off in relation to mis-selling. No one is coming to me telling me that we've got a problem with break costs, so I'm not focusing on it at all.”
“we did not discuss how interest rate risk was transferred from the Bank to NAB. In particular, we did not discuss the corresponding hedging arrangements between the Bank and NAB.”