“I have today received your VAT notice of assessment of surcharge and surcharge liability notice extension dated12 May 2017 , and wish to seek a review. You say that I am responsible for not paying my VAT on time when in fact the blame lies with you. As you are aware, VAT payments can only be paid online. I attempted to pay my VAT on time on Friday05 May 2017 but was prevented from doing so because the system did not recognise either my ID number or password (which at that time were 1267632 and 96Y8M2xD, having been updated by you from the previous ID number of 207170547188 and previous password at some point last year, I think around August 2016). What puzzled me was that these numbers were saved on my machine and had been recognised previously. After a number of failed attempts to gain access to the account, I contacted your webchat helpline on said date and chatted with Alexander who was unable to resolve the problem, and suggested that I contact technical support for assistance. This I did, only to be met with a response that there was no-one available to speak to me until Monday 08 May. Thereafter, over the course of 06 and 07 May, I tried unsuccessfully to gain access to the account, thinking that there was simply a blip in the system. On Monday morning,08 May 2017 , first thing I managed to speak to one of the technical support team (I think her name was Claire) and explained the problem. She told me that the ID number I quoted of 1267632 was incorrect and stated that she would send out a new ID number in the post. She was not able to explain why the difficulty had arisen, save to say that the system had been updated recently. She also said that it would take 5 working days for me to receive the new ID number, and because of that she could not make arrangement to accept payment of the Tax on 08 May. I asked her at least to take a note of my phone call which she agreed to do so. In due course, I received what was supposed to be a new ID number, but it turned out to be nothing more than my original number of 207170547188 allocated to me when I first registered with VAT online. Moreover, when I entered this number it recognised it as saved, as well as the original password. I was then able to get access to the online account to pay my VAT. At no time was I ever informed that you had reverted to my original ID number. Had I been so advised, I would have been able to gain timeous access to the account for payment. In these circumstances, I cannot see how I can be held to blame for what appears to be a clear failure on your part and particularly the system operated by you, and it is on that basis I seek a review. Finally, please note that although your notice is dated12 May 2017 , it was not received until today,26 May 2017 . If, as you state on the notes which accompany the notice that I can appeal to an independent tribunal within 30 days of this letter this means that I have until 09 June to do this. Kindly ensure therefore that a decision is made on this review before that date.”
“HMRC give two reasons for their decision. Firstly, they state they have no record of a web chat taking place on “Friday05 July 2017 ”
“I refer to earlier emails you have had with Jess Parlour regarding this trader and want to clarify something which an advisor on the Help Desk said when the trader telephoned on the8 May 2017 . Basically the advisor said that following the recent upgrade of the Gateway then stored passwords etc. were removed this was after trader mentioned that he got a message saying this. Trader was then advised no log on attempt recorded on system. Is it possible the upgrade reverted back to previous ID and Password as he is adamant that he used the correct ID etc. also he's produced a computer log showing the user ID he has used in his appeal to the Tribunal. He also again refers to the Webchat he says took place and he did mention this when he phoned in on 8th May. He says he couldn't get through to the Help Desk on the 5th after he had finished his Webchat although that's what he was told to do. In your email to Jess you seem to indicate that had he contacted us before the due date then his ID and Password would have been set whilst he was on the phone, would this have been the case. The reason I am seeking some clarification the upgrade may have had in regards to the user IDs and passwords is because we have another trader who has appealed to the Tribunal who also says he couldn't login to file his 03/17 return as his ID had been in his words "closed", something which he says he didn't do. In this case, however, even though he phoned after the due date he was re-enrolled whist on the phone. It would seem just from these two cases that the upgrade to the Gateway service may have caused problems with user IDs and passwords.”
“The system cannot revert user’s ID back to anything else. Once you have the user ID that never changes. They were trying to login with something that wasn’t even in the right format to be a user ID (a seven digit number) this is most likely an ID for something else that the PC saved. He says that they were recognised previously it is impossible as user IDs have always been 12 digits… Regarding the other case user, IDs don’t close either, though what may have happened is the service was removed from that account by them or adviser, which would mean when they log into it the 80s no longer available…”
“I have the following Reply to make in response to your letter:- 1) Despite its initial denial that a web chat ever took place (see HMRC letter dated04 July 2017 ), it now concedes that it happened and the transcript which is now available is pretty much in line with what I recall. Significantly, as you see from the transcript, the web chat exchange ended with "Alexander" suggesting that I "contact the VAT helpline to appeal any fines" I might "get for late submissions". 2) It is also plain that there appears to have been a glitch in the system that operated at the time (see email by Steven Jones to Benjamin Carpio dated01 September 2017 ) where it is disclosed that "another trader who has appealed to the tribunal" also could not log in to file his 03/17 return. I suspect that the glitch had something to do with HMRC updating its system at that time. 3) I believe given all these circumstances that I took all reasonable steps to pay my VAT timeously, and ask that the appeal be allowed.”
“(07:32 PM) PETER FARRELL: I HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO LOG ON BECAUSE FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON MY STORED ID NUMBER AND PASSWORD ARE NOT RECOGNISED. THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED BEFORE. (07:32 PM) Alexander: It may be when you enter the password if you have caps lock stuck on. (07:37 PM) Alexander: I'm still here - You do still have caps lock on Peter. (07:39 PM) Peter Farrell: I KNOW FOR THIS CHAT BUT NOT WHEN I TRIED TO LOG ON AGAIN. CAPS ON OR OFF I CAN'T GET ACCESS TO PAY MY VAT WHICH IS DUE ON 7TH AT LATEST OTHERWISE I COULD FACE PENALTY. (07:39 PM) Alexander: How many times have you tried to log in now? (07:40 PM) Peter Farrell: AT LEAST 4 TIMES MAYBE 5 AND ONCE I EVEN PUT IN THE DETAILS MANUALLY. STILL NO LUCK. (07:41 PM) Alexander: The account will be locked in that case for 2 hours. (07:41 PM) Alexander: I advise that you contact the VAT technical helpline for advice on what is stopping you from logging in. (07:42 PM) Alexander: You can chat to them here -https://www.goy.ukigovernment/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contactivat-online-services-helpdesk (07:45 PM) Peter Farrell: I tried to contact the technical adviser but no luck. Said that I sent invalid message. Any other suggestions? (07:46 PM) Alexander: You can call that department, you will find the contact number on that link I've sent. (07:47 PM) Peter Farrell: is it still open for business at this time? (07:47 PM) Alexander: Opening times: 8am to 6pm, Monday to Friday (07:48 PM) Peter Farrell: but that is the problem, Monday is the 8th and I need to pay my tax by the 7th. (07:49 PM) Alexander: You can only try to webchat with them. Unfortunately I cannot help you any further. If you wait 2 hours then click on forgotten user ID and password online, you'll be able to reset them. (07:51 PM) Peter Farrell: Well really Alexander you haven't been any help at all if you think about it. (07:52 PM) Alexander: Well you are talking to the wrong helpdesk as I've tried to tell you, SO yes that's right I can't help you (07:53 PM) Alexander: I suggest you contact the VAT helpline to appeal any fines you may get for late submissions Peter.”
"Submit your return on time Make a note of when your return is due." "