“I remember going into a separate room at one stage with Wayne Clark and David Youlton and informing David Youlton that he may have a claim against Charles Russell but that I could not advise him or the other Trustees in relation to it. This was on the basis that I would have expected a solicitor to have ensured that the other side had the necessary authority to enter into the transaction. I said that a settlement with the Company would not preclude David Youlton or the Trustees suing Charles Russell.”
“This [scheme of works] was undertaken by Snell & Wilcox’s in-house team of architects and builders. These works were commissioned and paid for by Snell & Wilcox but were, without the knowledge or agreement of the Trustees, subsequently charged in full to the SASS Pension Fund by way of offset to rent and reimbursement. The S&W finance department was managing the SASS’s finances until 2002. I only became aware of this in 2001 when I was about to leave the Company and discovered that there was no money in the Pension Fund.……. We also discovered that some work on other properties carried out by Snell & Wilcox had also been wrongly charged to the Trustees. In total some£2.7 million had been charged to the Pension Fund. This came as a huge shock and a serious concern given that the Pension Fund represented the primary source of my future income.”
“Southleigh Park tenant fit out to be settled through use of jointly agreed professionals whose recommendations shall be binding on both parties”
“I have spoken to Andy [Mr Williams] re the side letter on Southleigh Park. As suspected, he has advised that as the issue concerns the value of the fund all the Trustees need to agree to this process taking place. As such, the safest route is to arrange for a Board resolution of the Trustees to allow David [Professor Youlton] to agree the contents of the letter with John Spencer on their behalf rather than signing the letter individually…..”
“Compromise Agreement – Escrow Arrangements We refer to the compromise agreement proposed to be entered into on the date hereof between Snell & Wilcox Limited (S&W”) and you (the “Agreement”). You and S&W hereby agree that the Agreement and all documents ancillary thereto which may be executed by Snell & Wilcox Limited shall be deemed to be held in escrow, and the Agreement and all such documents and all matters to be effected thereby, shall be conditional on the approval of the Agreement and such documents, and the matter referred to therein, by the board of S&W. We hereby undertake to seek to procure a meeting of the board of S&W within 7 days of the date of this letter to seek such approval.”
“We are both looking into the abyss of huge legal and other professional costs and a major distraction for those at S&W who are responsible for and focussed on preparing the company for sale and enhancing its profitability… ….Whatever you are being advised by your Lawyers, we have been advised by our lawyers after Counsel’s Advice, that there are no substantive legal issues outstanding over which we could not expect to get Judgment. …We must now put it to bed or see each other in court.” …We must now put it to bed or see each other in court.”
“... On the apportionment agreement I did not actually consider that there was really any potential problem other than the company law point because on the apportionment agreement that had been - if it were a valid contract there was no other reason to invalidate it. There was this argument about an interim award having been issued and therefore in some way that rendering the surveyors redundant but I did not -- I did not myself consider that had any particular chance of success. So on the apportionment agreement it seemed to me the company law points were the only issue...”
“However, rather than aggressively pursuing performance of the Agreement, DY had attempted to help the Company’s cash flow/financial position… There was delay but only because he was trying to help the Company. DY confirmed that he was having meetings with Simon Derry who was requesting that DY did not pursue the Agreement as the Company had financial difficulties and could not afford to pay as yet…”
“DY said as far as he is concerned, the trial [sic] leads back to Charles Russell, because if they lose, then Charles Russell will get sued. If Charles Russell allowed the document to be signed without the requisite authority, then there will be problems.”
“MT confirming that there was obviously a conflict between CR and the trustees. JM had asked who should have satisfied who. MT advised that both sides should have ensured that there was binding authority. We do not know whether this was done in this case. As a firm CR need to look into this….. DY is saying that he is going to ensure that if the trustees go down on the company law points, he will make sure that CR is on the hook…… With regards to tomorrow [the Mediation], it was agreed that there is a conflict in the circumstances which have arisen today, and CR will not be able to advise the trustees if it is in their interests to settle. Any advice in relation to settling will need to be left to WC and MT. It will be down as far as they are concerned to a financial matter not a legal matter.”
“(a) They want to park them (b) The are not taking a point on the lease (c) They agree the “put and keep””
“£250,000 is sufficient for the pension lump sums. They [the Trustees] will also require the balance of the arrears [a reference to rent] to be paid. In terms of figures, JM confirmed that this was£263,278 with interest at£158,000 . This makes£421,858 ….If you add£250,000 to this, this makes£671,859 . So DY confirmed we are£400,000 adrift from where we want to be. JM indicated that on their calculations, if you are taking the apportionment agreement through and getting a final award, it should be approximately£2.7m .
“BR reported that they are apparently£20 million in debt. DY said that apparently in five years, they have taken the debt from£17 million to£20 million , despite having downsized. BR reported that they have taken huge hits from the US. These are big loss figures. There is a net current debt of£11 million . There is a long term£2.5 million figure and£9 million of preferentials. BR’s biggest concern was£15 million of creditors. DL did not know that they had not been paying suppliers. DY would like a breakdown of who the debt is due to….. …BR reported that they say that they have written off£4 million from US subsidiaries…….. MT reported that the bank debt is mainly at 1%. DY was saying that the Advent debt had been at 15%. DY said that the other thing which came out of the meeting is that we can forget about the shareholding. They owe Advent huge sums by way of dividends etc. They are hoping to get a moratorium on the debt from the banks. If all of what he says is true, then someone is failing appallingly. He said that margins are just over 50%, so they have gone down by 10%. The most they ever turned over was£37.5 million which was last year. A lot of the information given had to be taken at face value, but DY didn’t think that there was anything obvious that they could have manipulated. DL pointed out that the point they are making is whether we want the company like this as a tenant. DY said it did not matter. We have said to them that the Lease is a deal breaker. We have said that it’s still a deal breaker because we need to be able to value the fund. If they go broke, they will be paying rent until they go broke. DL thought they could be making the figures look more grim. BR thought that the figures won’t be manipulated to a very high degree at all.”
“WC confirmed that he has reiterated on a number of occasions that the money is simply not there. WC pointed out to DY that insofar as he is wanting the sort of figures that our offer leaves them to think, then he is simply not going to get these. DKH asked about the merit of looking at a structured payment. WC thought that if the state of their finances is to be agreed, then we need to question what we would achieve if we carry on pushing on. Surely we need to try to improve the offer that they have made. DY thought there was a tax loss in the company worth at least£25 million . He has decided he does not believe them. He thinks there are too many adjustments in their figures. He heard someone had offered£50 million and they turned it down. They have offered us£900,000 last time and now we are at£250,000 . There is no scope for agreement here where the Trustees are supposed to be protecting the assets of the pension fund….. ….. PB [the Mediator] pointed out that if the company goes bust, they will lose everything. PB said the options are to do a deal today, or to carry on and go to Court. Whether we win or lose at that stage, they may still go bust. The main problem is if what they are saying is true, we could end up with them not refinancing. DY did not think that Advent would walk away.… RS said if what they were saying about their finances is true, we should take the offer and run. If not, it may be critical. He asked whether there was any scope to look into the figures now.…… DL confirmed that he has explained to JM the discussion that they have had. We have got£500,000 on the table which goes if we walk away. They’re clearly strapped for cash…. We will not be able to get the cash that we want now. JM thought there may be cash in the future. DL said we could get Liss Mill, their perception is, it’s worth a lot less than it is for us. They would not then need to pay out cash and as they are having problems paying suppliers, they are obviously in serious problems. DL knows that at least one of the suppliers who has got£500,000 outstanding and has agreed to a payment of£50,000 per month. The cash issue is very real. There might be a bit of fiddling around the£250,000 figure [a sum S&W had offered] but not much….. WC said that PB needs to go back and say that clearly they have cash flow problems and tell them a flavour of the other options and let them consider these.”
“DY’s first comment was they have got nothing. DY has spoken to PF who is adamant that they will not move. They can’t. He says the rent review is extortionate and they will not agree. DY had offered a third party arbitrator and PF had confirmed they would only go to£250,000 . DY had pointed out that they had previously offered£900,000 but PF said this was when they were trading profitably. The overheads are now so high. They have been told it will cost£250,000 to go to Court so they have offered£250,000 . PB said it would in fact be much more than this.………. DY confirmed the only offer is (a)£400,000 now; (b)£400,000 when the company is sold. MT indicated that in relation to a 10 day trial they should be looking at costs of£1 million between them easily, or£750,000 each. ”
“spoken 2 PF – adamant they not move”
“DY confirmed that they [ie S&W] are choosing to spend their money in other ways. They have won by attrition. They simply do not have the money”
“They do have the £”
“A. Professor Youlton then left the room to go and have a cigarette outside, and as far as we were aware Peter Fredericks was then talking to him at the time. There was then obviously a gap in time where most of the trustees remained in the room where I was, and to a certain extent I think, you know, there was the impression that, well, maybe something might happen here. There had been discussion about Liss Mill and, you know, whether we could throw something into the equation to help, to help the negotiations. So when Professor Youlton came back to the room, I distinctly remember his opening gambit, which was quite shocking not only because of the language being used but mostly because it was a real "right, okay, we don't really have anywhere to go here". Q. That is what you recall him saying, "We don't have anywhere to go here"? A. No, sorry, that is what I am saying the flavour of it was. I recall him saying as – Q. We don't have to use the words because we now know them. What specifically do you recall? A. I have just told you what I recall. I recall him coming back into the room, having gone for his meeting with Peter Fredericks, and saying, "They have got fuck all." Q. Yes. Now, you don't recall the detail though of the passages I have just read out? A. I don't recall, remember each and every thing that he said now, no, but I would have written down, in so much as I could, when he came back into the room, as I always had done throughout the mediation, what was being said at that time so when Professor Youlton came back in, I would have written down in so much as I could what he had said. Q. Yes. A. I didn't, however, write down his opening gambit. I was quite surprised by what he had said. All the trustees were looking around and then I took a detailed note of what he said after that.”
“Q. This was an important comment, wasn't it? This was an important comment by Professor Youlton, wasn't it? A. There had been discussion about whether they could pay over a period of time. The trustees, I think, wanted them to be -- wanted the monies to be paid – Q. We agree about that. A. -- whatever they settled on to be paid quickly. I don't know why that note isn't in -- why that comment isn't in here. Q. Can I suggest why it is an important comment – because you won't answer the question whether it is an important comment. It is an important comment because one way round the actual perceived financial difficulties of the company would be that they pay money over time. That is what Professor Youlton had suggested to Mr Fredericks and Mr Fredericks had simply said, "No". That's important, isn't it? A. Yes, but that's not how I -- I didn't leave it out because I thought that was -- I don't know why it's not in there.”
“Q. Do you recollect returning into the room and saying, in extremely forthright language, that the company didn't have anything, the company had nothing? A. I categorically refute that I said either of those things, that they have got nothing or -- they were adamant they will not move, they can't. I categorically refute that. Categorically. No ambiguity in my memory at all about that. On other things I'm prepared to allow my memory to be, you know, flawed but on that I absolutely am sure. I never did that. Q. So what were your words to the group when you returned? A. I can't remember but they certainly weren't that. I mean I got the impression from Peter, as I said to you, that they were not prepared to go further. It's nothing to do with whether they could or couldn't; they were not prepared to, because they'd come to an agreement, I suppose, at board level, and he was instructed that they would only pay up to the level of costs, and after that they were not prepared to go any further. And it was prepared to pay, not afford to pay. That was the point he made to me. And the fact that they felt they had the winning hand and they would win at trial.”
“But persons contracting with a company and dealing in good faith may assume that acts within its constitution and powers have been properly and duly performed and are not bound to inquire whether acts of internal management have been regular.”
“…the defendant had to plead the issue of the original defendant’s impecuniosity, and had an evidential burden. As the defendants had satisfied this, the burden or proof rested on the claimant. The judge held that such impecuniosity would have had an effect on the likely settlement obtained..”
“Did they have any money? A business that's generating£35 /36 million worth of turnover is creating and generating that amount of money. They make decisions on how to spend that money. And they have a£20 million administrative cost of which approximately 30% related to research and development, something in the region of£6 million . If they were in serious financial difficulty, and they were running out of cash, one option would be to cut back on that R&D cost. That R&D cost relates to future earnings not to the current earnings. And I would think that that was probably quite an important issue at the time; that they weren't cutting back on those costs.”
“Yes. It was always the case. Advent had in excess of£20 million tied up in company. They wouldn't lightly put that at risk. And that's just in terms of what they had invested in there. There is other value within the company as well, in terms of its intellectual property.”
“This came as somewhat of a surprise given that at Board Meetings I was getting a very different picture. I had actually told the other Trustees and their legal advisors at the conference the day before that Snell & Wilcox’s turnover was continuously improving and what I was hearing at Board level were optimistic reports about the prospects for a successful sale. At no time during the Board Meetings did anyone suggest that the Company was at financial risk or in any financial danger.”
“Q. Did you have a clear understanding of the financial position of the company year on year or is that simply not your bag? A. I had a clear impression, but no more than that, in that when things were difficult you knew. You know, research expenditure was cut back and so forth. So I had a good impression but I wouldn't say it was an exact one because understanding balance sheets and such like is not my strength. Q. As a matter of impression, the company was making losses year on year over the period 2004 through to 2007; that's correct, isn't it? A. I don't think that's true, no. No, we were in fact -- in order that the company could be merged in the way it was, we were doing quite well. I mean, much better than was -- at the board meetings, the issue was not how do we survive, ever; it was making sure our costs were kept to a minimum and we grew the business.”
“The Trustees would not have settled on the terms which they did were it not for the doubts about the two agreements. It was the risk that they might not win the action which the Trustees had brought against S&W coupled with the risk of costs (the risk of not recovering if they were successful and the near certainty of having to pay if they were unsuccessful) which forced the Trustees to settle on the terms which they did. If the two agreements had not been vulnerable, those risks would not have been present. The defences raised in the action (the Want of Authority Defence and the Unenforceability Defence) would not have arisen at all and summary judgment would have been obtained on the Interim Award. Specific performance of the 2002 Side Letter would have been obtained with the result that the rent reviews could have been implemented. Further, the extension lease would have been granted enabling the Trustees to value their reversionary interests with the benefit of that extended lease.”
“MT confirmed that in his view, this had to settle. Otherwise costs will increase and there will be a huge trial, on the basis that this matter involves lots of complex issues. DY had far too much control. The company law points will cause problems because of DY’s control and the lack of documents. There are also huge issues of fact. The other side are only accepting that Spencer had actual authority to negotiate, but no one had authority of any type to sign. We have seen no documents at this stage to show that there was authority. We have only seen some board minutes.”
“Whether or not we win depends on the facts as have pleaded them and whether we can establish those. If we do not do so, then we will lose…..Mr Todd said that the burden of proof is actually on us because of the absence of board minutes showing actual authority – so we need to show ostensible authority….”
“As I've said to you, repeatedly, in this cross-examination, there is no evidence anywhere that anybody other than remarks made by me in passing that have been referred to in notes taken by your client, is there any evidence that Peter Fredericks, the Chief Executive, anybody else, ever mentioned -- apart from lawyers, ever mentioned this problem of financial jeopardy of the company. It's always cash flow, cash flow, cash flow........ I said to you before, that the company had a financial problem. It was backed by a very wealthy venture fund who were continuing to invest in it. And I think it was choices they made about how their balance sheet was constructed and the debt that they were establishing and the fact that they would one day capitalise it and liquidate the ordinary shareholders, as they did. I don't think there is anything other than that that's in this.”
“deal Structure deal exit 18-24 months + money in fund in case liquidation + forfeit lease”
“Mr DY said that we would then walk away because it is so fundamental to him, RS, JW and DY have to make a decision as to whether to value as is, take a risk, or bail out. The question is who can afford it more…… This is a hard call. DY said that he would be prepared to agree£1 million being paid into it. [The note continues with the passage set out by Hubble]”. b) It is impossible, I think, to view this part of the note as reflecting a concern that S&W was actually about to “go broke”
“He finds it extraordinary that there was clear authority for JS to enter into twelve out of thirteen agreements. Why would they know about the lack of authority in relation to only one agreement”
“Q. Isn't what was happening that Mr Fredericks was identifying the financial difficulties the company was in; Mr Lyon, who had inside knowledge of the company, was indicating problems with suppliers; and the mediator – A. That doesn't mean the company is terminal. Q. No, but it means the trustees have to make a decision about whether they accept what's on offer, or push on and risk losing everything? A. We weren't seriously going to push on when we were being told we had a weak case and we had Michael Todd telling us it would cost us 700,000 to go ahead. He was advising us against it. So it's very difficult to negotiate when you're actually being told to settle. We couldn't actually have that last card and say "We'll see you in court." That was far too risky.” iii) Professor Snell thought that the merits, the costs, the need to appoint new solicitors and delay were all important factors in the decision to settle. Three of the four trustees had been waiting for some time to retire and he understood that until settlement was reached (on the Apportionment of costs, the lease extension, the rent review and repairs to the West Wing) it was impossible to value the fund. To his mind it was the uncertainty of the eventual outcome, the costs, the risk of indebting the Fund and putting back retirement by years if the Trustees lost the case which were more important than the ability of S&W to pay, a factor which to him was the least important. iv) Mr Wilcox’s main concern was that his retirement would be put back for years since there was not a good enough case and the costs were so high. v) Mr Todd advised that the settlement terms should be agreed. His recollection as expressed in his witness statementwas that this was because of his view of the prospects of success, the cost of taking the matter to trial and recovery in the light of S&W’s financial position. It should be noted, however, that his clear advice, as recorded in the first paragraph of the attendance note of the consultation on 11 September was that the case had to settle, otherwise costs would increase and there would be a huge trial (in relation to which the merits were only on balance in favour of the Trustees). For Mr Todd, by the time of the actual settlement, it was a mix of the three factors which I have just mentioned. He accepted that he might have questioned with Professor Youlton that, even if S&W had been in a better position that it was representing, it would have been worth the risks which he, Mr Todd, had highlighted in taking the matter to trial. “That is certainly the sort of advice that I might well have given. The commercial decision is then for the client to take”
“Having been intimately involved in the Company’s financial affairs over so many years I was aware that the Company had a substantial value which far outweighed that represented by the net assets disclosed in the published accounts. At no time did I believe the majority shareholder in the holding company, Advent, would allow this value to be lost.”
“With regard to trading anything for the Lease Extension which by right they are obliged to sign anyway, seems to be greatly disproportionate. We are trading something which is arguably already our right, for what?.....”
“Q. [the increase in net debt] at the same time suggests that the company was performing worse than its budget? A. That's what you would draw from those figures. They're for five months. What I do know about this business is that it is often the sales are driven by large contracts and they can come in at different parts of the year, and it is very difficult to predict when they will come in. So you can have a slow start to the year and then you can have things pick up later on, with large contracts coming through, and that may well be why they were behind on the budget at that time. What I do know is that when you look at the year as a whole, that their figures were growing on the previous year and that they were reporting operating profits as well.”
“The fallacy in the rent claim is, assuming that because one waves a wand as soon as you start doing causation, you can go back in time and say: well actually the rent review in March 2004 would have included the west wing, would have included the other buildings on the site, and they would be treated as being 'rentalised' for the purposes of the rent claim.”
“As a further result of the 2002 Side Letter, if properly drafted and executed, the Trustees would have been able to and would have raised monies in or about 2006 by selling the Property, alternatively using the extended Lease as security. They are no longer able to do so, or do so on satisfactory terms, by reason of (a) the fact that the remaining term of the Lease (as extended) is 9 years (in 2007) not 11 (in or before 2006; and (b) the fall in commercial property prices. The Trust has lost about£1.2m as a result thereof, but claims only£386,000 representing the difference in value between a lease with 11 and 9 years remaining.”