"If he wants a fight I'll batter him anyway" - referring to the appellant. Luke Conway left No 46 before anybody else - this would have been at about 11.20 pm. He met the appellant, who was with the two other young men, some eighty yards away from No 46. He said to the appellant: "
"I'm not taking no shit from nobody."
"What the fuck's the knife for?"
"He didn't think I'd fucking do it."
"11. Now it is a defence to a charge of murder and also a defence to a charge of manslaughter if a defendant may have been acting in lawful self defence. If he may have been acting in lawful self defence he is entitled to be found not guilty. Because the prosecution must prove his guilt, it's for the prosecution to prove that a defendant and this defendant in particular was not acting in lawful self defence. It's not for him to establish that he was. You must consider the matter of self defence in the light of the situation which the defendant honestly believed he faced. 12. First of all, you should ask yourselves the question whether the defendant honestly believed it was necessary to use force to defend himself. By force, I mean the use of the knife. This wouldn't be the case if of course as the prosecution maintain the defendant was there for revenge because then of course he has gone to the incident, it's not that the violence has come to him, he has taken the violence to Alex Doyle. If you are sure that the defendant did not honestly believe it was necessary to use force to defend himself, then he cannot have been acting in lawful self defence and you need consider that matter no further. 13. But what if you think that the defendant did honestly believe or may honestly have believed that it was necessary to use force to defend himself? Well, in that situation you must then decide whether the type and the amount of force used was reasonable. Now obviously a person who is under attack may react on the spur of the moment. He can't be expected to work out exactly how much force he needs to use to defend himself. On the other hand, if he goes over the top and uses force out of all proportion to the anticipated attack upon him or more force than is really necessary to defend himself, that force would not be reasonable. So you must take into account both the nature of any attack you feel there was upon the defendant or might have been and what he then did. 14. What the defendant says is, he is confronted by Alex Doyle who is squaring up to him, he's throwing punches and he's returning. Then to Alex Doyle's rear are a number of other people, he and his Wythenshawe friends are out-numbered, he panics, he produces the knife and therefore it's reasonable force. All right? So you see the two stages. Was he acting and did he honestly believe he had to use reasonable force to defend himself and secondly, was the force he actually used reasonable. All right? 15. Of course the prosecution say that here it wasn't reasonable. The prosecution go further. They say it wasn't self-defence. It wasn't Alex Doyle who was the aggressor, it wasn't his friends who were the aggressor, it was the defendant who was the aggressor, he was out for trouble. That's what the prosecution say. Well, if that is the position and you are sure of it, well self-defence doesn't come into it you may think, but if you do consider that the defendant may have been acting in self defence because he honestly believed that he was under threat, you have then got to go on and ask yourself the question, was the force reasonable."
"Add as appropriate; a person who [is the aggressor] [acts in revenge] [knows he does not need to resort to violence] does not act in lawful self-defence."
"... it is now clear that the propositions in Hume and Macdonald that the accused must not have started the trouble, or provoked the quarrel, are stated too broadly. It is not accurate to say that a person who kills someone in a quarrel which he himself started, by provoking it or entering into it willingly, cannot plead self defence if his victim then retaliates. The question whether the plea of self defence is available depends, in a case of that kind, on whether the retaliation is such that the accused is entitled then to defend himself. That depends upon whether the violence offered by the victim was so out of proportion to the accused's own actings as to give rise to the reasonable apprehension that he was in an immediate danger from which he had no other means of escape, and whether the violence which he then used was no more than was necessary to preserve his own life or protect himself from serious injury."
"175. 'Then Alex started kicking off, pushing me and throwing punches. None of them connected. I was throwing punches back and none of them connected either. Everyone in the crowd were being dead aggressive. They closed in on me. I had the hedge and the wall behind. I couldn't run off because of my injury and I felt intimidated and feared for my own safety. I produced the knife. I produced it to scare them away or to make it so that they wouldn't come near me. I had no intention to use it to cause injury. The crowd didn't back off and so I said "
"(1) To justify killing or inflicting serious injury in self-defence the accused must honestly believe on reasonable grounds that he is in immediate danger of death or serious injury and that to kill or inflict serious injury provides the only reasonable means of protection."
"Of course, do bear in mind that although manslaughter is an alternative it is not a soft option."
"Don't go for the soft option of manslaughter. Look at the evidence in relation to the case, decide is it murder. If it is, manslaughter doesn't come into it; if you're not sure it's murder consider manslaughter; if you're not sure of manslaughter, not guilty of manslaughter, in which case it's not guilty of anything."
"I have indicated that I am prepared to say that I am not absolutely sure that you intended to kill, but you certainly intended to cause him really serious harm. You went there to teach him a lesson, of that I am abundantly satisfied and it seems to me quite clear that there was therefore a significant degree of premeditation in this matter, that being an aggravating feature under paragraph 10(a) of the Schedule. You went to Wilmslow with two of your friends from Wythenshawe, you took with you a lethal weapon, you used it to teach Alex Doyle a lesson and as a result of that quite deplorable and dreadful conduct a young life has been lost forever. I also I'm afraid do regard as an aggravating feature your general record of violence and unruly conduct. The one thing that can be a mitigating feature is your age. One thing that cannot is in any contrition at all, any regret, because you have not shown any. Therefore, it seems to me having regard to all these matters that the minimum period that I should fix for this extremely nasty and serious offence with such tragic consequences is a minimum term of 16 years from which I deduct a period of six months that you have served on remand towards your sentence. You will accordingly spend a minimum of fifteen-and-a-half years in custody before the Parole Board can order your early release."
"Where the offender is close to 18, justice demands that the fact that he has passed that age is not reflected in the sentence to an extent that is disproportionate."