“Whilst I have an understanding of DWP ‘jargon’ used in notepads, it is, in the main, just that, and despite a degree of universality, various officers do use different acronyms, abbreviations etc., some of which I am unfamiliar with. It would, therefore, be potentially misleading for me to speculate as to the RS v Secretary of State for Work & Pensions (ESA)[2021] UKUT 112 (AAC) Case no: CE/1941-3/2018 4 meaning of some entries, and could severely compromise the quality, and reliability, of the advice given to the tribunal”
“1202 BC, 9:20 S003 clrd – NC-”
“an officer with the initials NC at Barnsley Benefit Centre (1202) took action to clear case control S003. This action did not change the rate of ESA(IR) awarded. Case control SOO3 covers a variety of possible actions”; -19 November 2015 , Mr S issued with Form INF1; -18 April 2016 , DWP telephone contact with Mr S, described as “Gen Enq”; -9 May 2016 , entry in DWP records: “3591 9:35. Abdn, cc, LMC POB issued as requested. LMC”
“I claimed contribution based Jobseekers Allowance in 2011 / official: 2011, yeah? / Mr S: yeah, contribution based Jobseekers Allowance, it’s a different benefit I believe / official: It’s the same benefit…It’s just based on what contributions you’ve paid whilst you’ve worked, it was a single claim”; - Official: “it may be that there’s two different start dates but you’ve been continuously in receipt of benefit” / Mr S: “have I?” / official: “since June 2011” / Mr S: “have I?”; official: “according to your records that we’ve got here” / Mr S: “that surprises me but go on” / official: “Well why does that surprise that…” / Mr S: “…er, as far as I’m aware the jobseekers, the contribution based seized [presumably ‘ceased’] in 2012”; - Official: “so you reclaimed did you?” / Mr S: “I believe so” / official: “according to this system here, the prints I’ve got here, you’ve con, continuously in receipt since 10th of June 2011…there’s no end date you see”; - Mr S: “…but presumably I wasn’t in receipt of anything but in actually fact like the claim might have still been there but I wasn’t in receipt of any benefit” / official 1: “Why?” / official 2: “Why is that?” / Mr S: “because presumably once the contributions ended I wasn’t entitled to anything” / official: “No, because RS v Secretary of State for Work & Pensions (ESA)[2021] UKUT 112 (AAC) Case no: CE/1941-3/2018 12 you will then have been invited to claim income related and depending on your circumstances at that time”; - Mr S: “So they’ll be another claim or so?” / official: “Cont, yes, potentially yes” / Mr S: “Okay” / official: “yes, you’ve not stopped your claim? You’ve not actually rung us up and said I am fit to work or you’ve not done anything like that have you?” / Mr S: “No but I thought the moment that my entitlement to something seizes [presumably ‘ceases’] / official: “we would automatically then look into the income related side? We wouldn’t just stop your…” / Mr S: “…didn’t to happen that way” / official: “It did, it has”; - Official 1: “so have we got a, I mean I don’t, have we got claim forms” / Mr S: “yeah, yeah” / official 1: “[A]? [A refers to the name of official 2]” / official 2: “No, unfortunately it was er…the, the form you see” / Mr S: “…I was expecting…yourselves to come with specific dates” / official 1: “yeah, well as I say, we can only go by what information we’ve got for you” / Mr S’s solicitor: “Yeah and once that that that period for, of a year seized [presumably ‘ceased’] then they both did a joint claim for ESA”; - Official: “we were gonna ask you, yeah because between, even though it says there 10 6 11 and it’s looking like it’s been a continuous claim” / solicitor: “oh” / Mr S: “yeah” / official: “on here there is a gap of two years” / Mr S: “yes” / official: “…so that accounts for that” / Mr S: “absolutely it does” / official: “…I can only apologise because it’s just unfortunate that our system as it, as it erm, deletes dates and information, it does it, it do, it can do it sometimes and I’m not making excuses, it can do it sometimes not in date order, it can pick a period in the middle…” / Mr S: “yeah but” / official: “so that clarifies that” / Mr S: “…obviously you know it, I’m sort of incandescent with rage about this because as far as I was concerned we had no claim with you…”; - Official 1: “so we were not sure if that was a gap in the, where the system has cleansed itself and just taken some random payments which it does happen” / official 2: “Erm, so that’s why we’re clarifying it with you…and what I didn’t want to do at this stage was request your bank accounts, I just think it’s too intrusive for me to go to your bank and get all the payments with that…” / official 1: “That’s why we’ve asked you to come in” / official 2: “…do you not agree with, I don’t think you’ll like it if I went to the bank and got your bank RS v Secretary of State for Work & Pensions (ESA)[2021] UKUT 112 (AAC) Case no: CE/1941-3/2018 13 accounts would you?” [I note that, by this stage, the DWP had already required Mr S’s pension provider and his wife’s former employer to supply financial details; it is not clear to me why Mr S being called for an interview under caution was presented as an act of consideration]; - Mr S: “So I must have completed a claim form” / official: “yeah” / “otherwise the benefit couldn’t have gone into payment” / official: “right” / Mr S: “And I must, I, I, unless I suffered the most terrible brain fart, I cannot see how I didn’t declare the income at the time” / official: “right” / Mr S: “so I mean one of the things I would like you to do is to produce my claim form from 2014” / official: “I’d love to be able to do that for you” / Mr S: “yeah, even though you can’t” / official 1: “that’s the problem unfortunately” / official 2: “no we can’t”; - official 1: “we, we get frustrated with it as well cos most claims are taken over the phone now you see”; Mr S: “well” / official 1: “you see sometimes the voice recordings” / official 2: “yeah” / official 1: “we don’t have them anymore, they get erased you know”; - official 1: “we don’t keep them” / Mr S: “because” / official 2: “we don’t keep them all the time, you know” / official 1: “it’s very, it is frustrating because we could sit down and actually go through like a, a, a pi, history of what your claims have been” / Mr S: “yeah” / official 1: “and what you’ve said on the forms and things but unfortunately if they’re not” / Mr S: “so” / official 1: “available we can’t” / Mr S: “I mean” / official 1: “we can only go by what’s on the screens you see” / Mr S: “if, if, I mean I’m not, honestly I’m not trying to be funny but you don’t have a claim form the, for the period we know that a mistake, one mistake was made on the payment of my claim form so what you’re actually saying, you don’t actually have any proof that I didn’t declare” / official 1: “no, not at this stage” / Mr S: “oh for Christ’s sakes…why am I in this situation for God’s sake” / official 1: “well we need to, we need to make sure that what we are paying you is correct that’s what”; - Mr S: “in a situation where the last god knows how many weeks I’ve had a letter from the fraud team, their strong suggestion is that I’ve done something illegal or potentially illegal and I haven’t, oh it’s driving me crazy” / official: “yeah and I can, I can only empathise with that, I, we, as I’ve tried to explain, it’s out of our hands. We, we’re given the information and we have to deal with the information and we’re only allowed to deal with it in what, in a certain way so any letters we send out it’s that, that’s the letter goes to everybody”; RS v Secretary of State for Work & Pensions (ESA)[2021] UKUT 112 (AAC) Case no: CE/1941-3/2018 14 - Official 2: “yeah we…can’t unfortunately send another letter out, you know” / official 1: “er, we can’t send a nicer note out to you particularly you see”; - Official 1: “right March, when did you, now wait a minute here, yeah March ’15. There is some reference in our notes regarding your er, March 15 ‘er, been sent in for partner after wage details in March ’15 being sent in for partner” / Mr S: “well there you go” / official: “yeah, so that clears that, you see I wanted to clear it with you because we haven’t taken it into account…” - official: “so it would appear that you have contacted…there is a note…to say that you’ve rung us about your wife working” / Mr S: “…I can only assume that I’ve done the right thing because that’s the sort of person I am and I would’ve reacted…you know in a timely fashion to the instructions I was given”; - official: “the one thing that we do know is that your benefits didn’t change…after we received that information from you” / Mr S: “…I don’t know…yeah I’m presuming they didn’t go down I mean…even if they, even if they did go down I, you know it would’ve been something that was, you know”; - official: “…so alright, okay so basically, as far as you’re concerned you, you’ve told us about everything, all these changes” / Mr S: “I believe so” / official: “and written it down yeah” / Mr S: “I’m, I’m absolutely certain” / official: “yeah because wh, when they do sent you, you know the uprating letters out every year…we send a leaflet about this, you know and which tells you to declare all your” / Mr S: “What” / official: “changes” / Mr S: “is an uprating letter?” / official: you know when you, every, around April time when your money goes up slightly, every year…they send it you saying, your money, your money has now changed” / Mr S: “but does, does it, does it list what” / official: “it lists changes to declare as well as the amount you know…it’s going up by, you know”
“Whilst I have an understanding of DWP ‘jargon’ used in notepads, it is, in the main, just that, and despite a degree of universality, various officers do use different acronyms, abbreviations etc., some of which I am unfamiliar with. It would, therefore, be potentially misleading for me to speculate as to the meaning of some entries, and could severely compromise the quality, and reliability, of the advice given to the tribunal.”
“Arguably, the First-tier Tribunal erred in law by giving inadequate reasons for its finding that Mr S’s 2011 award remained dormant following the expiry of his ESA contributory allowance and was then revived, or reimplemented, in 2014. The case as presented to the Tribunal was that the 2011 award was of a contributory allowance…theWelfare Reform Act 2007 clearly provides for entitlement to a contributory allowance to cease once it has been in payment for the relevant maximum number of days (typically 365 days). If the 2011 award was not also comprised of an income-related allowance, on what legal basis could the ESA award both be (a) revived without a new claim being made, and (b) apparently transformed into a joint-claim award of ESA? These matters were not addressed in the First-tier Tribunal’s reasons. The reasons simply state that this is a feature of ESA that is poorly understood by many claimants. Arguably, the First-tier Tribunal erred in law by failing adequately to investigate the whereabouts of the claim form / other form, which it found to have been completed by Mr S in order to ‘reimplement’ his ‘dormant’ ESA award in 2014. RS v Secretary of State for Work & Pensions (ESA)[2021] UKUT 112 (AAC) Case no: CE/1941-3/2018 19 Arguably, the First-tier Tribunal erred in law by failing to require the DWP to explain the potentially relevant but ‘untranslatable’ 2014 screen print entry.”
“where the claimant is a member of a couple, the income and capital of the other member of the couple shall, except in prescribed circumstances, be treated…as income and capital of the claimant”
“unable to supply the list of acronyms and abbreviations as requested. This is due to the way they are maintained on the DWP’s computer system. Lists are held on an alphabetical basis and are lengthy. The lists are subject to change as new ones are added and others deleted.”
“the computer system does not randomly delete data as was asserted. The system does advise that certain elements may have been archived (such as notepad entries), and that a full print out may be obtained, as has been done in this case. It is not known why the assertion was made during the interview under caution.”