“where do you come from?” and had received understandable if limited answers in English. She told us that when she had seen the quantity of tobacco in the back of the van she had said "you've got quite a habit" to which Mr Frydrysiak had answered "for friends and family as well". She described Mr Frydrysiak as having a basic but low-level command of English. 18. Mr Chaplin's witness statement he says that he had received a telephone call from Mr Frydrysiak in January 2012 in which Mr Frydrysiak had told him (in English) of certain developments. 19. Mrs Quarterman told us that Mr Frydrysiak telephoned her on17 April 2012 : she described his English as stilted but that, broadly, they understood each other. 20. Mr Frydrysiak told us that he had lived in England for eight years, during the last seven of which he had worked for John Lewis picking and packing items in a warehouse. 21. We find that Mr Frydrysiak has a modest command of English which suffices for everyday basic communication, which probably enables him to understand sentences that he would not be able to construct, and which may have lead to a lack of precision in what he said. That lack of precision would in our view have been exacerbated in the circumstances of being stopped by the police on suspicion of carrying stolen goods. 22. We consider that it is fair to admit PC Howes’ evidence because it is likely that Mr Frydrysiak understood what PC Howes meant. We think however that it would be unjust to treat PC Howes’ record of what Mr Frydrysiak said as a precise and accurate record of what he said or meant. The events leading to the seizure 23. Mr Frydrysiak told us that late on the evening of30 November 2011 he had been at home watching TV and had received a telephone call from a Mr Tejkowski. He said that at that time he had known Mr Tejkowski for a few months and that he met him occasionally, generally at Mr Tejkowski's request. Mr Tejkowski was also Polish. Mr Frydrysiak said that he believed his friend owned and ran a shop in Bedford in which he sold Polish food. 24. Mr Tejkowski, he said, had asked him for a favour: he said that he had been to a party the day before at which he had been drinking and that he was not now able to drive. But he was expecting a delivery of food: would Mr Frydrysiak take Mr Tejkowski's van and collect the food for him? Mr Frydrysiak told us that he agreed; he said that Mr Tejkowski spoke good English, was wealthy and would no doubt be able to return the favour. Mr Frydrysiak went to see Mr Tejkowski and picked up Mr Tejkowski's van. 25. Mr Tejkowski told him to go to a particular road in the Blakelands industrial estate. There he would find a lorry parked at the side of the road with parcels for Mr Tejkowski. The driver would be Polish, short, about 35 to 40 years old, with dark brown hair. Mr Frydrysiak was not told the name of the driver. Mr Tejkowski said the driver had come a long way and was passing through Milton Keynes at that time. Mr Frydrysiak should explain to the driver that he had come on behalf of Mr Tejkowski to collect the parcels. Mr Tejkowski gave Mr Frydrysiak a plastic wrap containing money to give the driver. Mr Tejkowski said it contained about£5000 . 26. Mr Frydrysiak said that he followed these instructions. He went to the appointed road where he found a lorry. He knocked on the door of the lorry and asked the driver, whom he had not met before, if he had goods for Mr Tejkowski. The driver said yes. The boxes were placed behind Mr Frydrysiak in the back of the van and Mr Frydrysiak gave the driver the money; the driver did not count it. Mr Frydrysiak said that the lorry driver had told him he had come through Belgium. Mr Frydrysiak said that he was not told by the lorry driver what the boxes contained. 27. We accept this evidence. There was nothing in the other evidence which cast doubt on it. In particular there was evidence that the registered keeper of van was, at the time of the stop, Mr Tejkowski. 28. It appears that Mr Frydrysiak then set off in the van. He told us that it was 15 to 20 minutes drive to Mr Tejkowski's house. But he was stopped by PC Howes and PC Clements on the way. He did not return the way he said he had come - he told us that he had come from Bicknell St (to the west of Blakelands) but he was stopped after driving down Delaware Drive, which appeared to be a quieter road to the east of Blakelands. 29. PC Clements told us that PC Howes had written the witness statement in which he had recorded his account of stopping Mr Frydrysiak, on his return to the police station. Mr Chaplin’s witness statement indicated that he was given the witness statement at about midday on1 December 2011 at the police station. The statement said it was completed at 1.30am. We conclude that the statement was written very shortly after Mr Frydrysiak was stopped. 30. PC Clements confirmed the account in PC Howes’ witness statement that they had stopped Mr Frydrysiak suspecting that he might have been carrying goods stolen from lorries in Blakelands industrial estate. She told us that PC Howes had talked to Mr Frydrysiak while she had inspected the van. She could not therefore attest to the accuracy of PC Howe's account of his conversation with Mr Frydrysiak. 31. PC Clement told us that the normal procedure would have been for PC Howes to introduce himself (and her), to explain the grounds for stopping the van and to set out the objectives of the search. We think it likely that he did so and that he conveyed to Mr Frydrysiak their suspicion that the van contained stolen goods. Mr Frydrysiak’s statements must be seen in that light. 32. She told us that when the back of the van was opened she saw that it was pretty much full of boxes of different sizes, some of which had been opened –she could see that these contained green pouches of Virginia tobacco - and others which looked sealed. 33. In his witness statement PC Howes said that Mr Frydrysiak appeared quite nervous. Mr Frydrysiak told us that he did not wish the police to think he had stolen goods in the van. 34. In his witness statement PC Howes recounted Mr Frydrysiak as saying of the boxes: "I bought off a Polish lorry driver, he is a friend, I paid him£5000 , he got them from Belgium and I have just collected it. It is mine. I give it to friends and family." 35. In his evidence to us Mr Frydrysiak said that he did not say that he had "bought" the goods, but had said that he had paid for them. His concern was to let the officers know he had not stolen them. We accept this account. 36. Mr Frydrysiak accepted that he had said that the person he had paid was Polish and a lorry driver. But a fairer record would be that he said that he had paid a Polish lorry driver for the goods rather than that he had bought the goods from him. We accept this account. . 37. Mr Frydrysiak denied that he had said that the goods had come from Belgium. He said that he had known that the lorry driver came from Belgium and may have given the impression that the goods also came thence. 38. Mr Frydrysiak accepted that he had "just collected" the goods, but was not sure whether he had said "it is mine.". 39. Mr Frydrysiak denied that he had said "I give it to friends and family". He told us that he was thinking about making a telephone call to friends and family to assist him in a situation in which he found himself. Given Mr Frydrysiak’s similar response to PC Clements’ joke (see [17] above) that he had “quite a habit” we think it likely that he did indicate that the goods could be for friends and family. 40. In his witness statement PC Howes continues, after his record of his recollection of what Mr said Frydrysiak said, to say: "he told me his friends' name was Darius & he gave his number as 07864 540328, however when he showed me this number on his phone it was under the name of "Marcin". 41. Mr Frydrysiak told us that Darius and Marcin were Polish friends whom he wished to contact to obtain help. They lived in Milton Keynes. We accept this. Evaluation 42. From this evidence we conclude: (1) that PC Howe's witness statement is likely to contain an accurate summary of what happened when he stopped Mr Frydrysiak, but, given the shortness of the recorded conversation may not be a verbatim record of Mr Frydrysiak’s words, or, given Mr Frydrysiak’s nervousness and poor command of English, wholly accurately reflect the information that Mr Frydrysiak intended to convey; we accept that Mr Frydrysiak, being nervous, and having a limited command of English did not intend to say that the goods were his or that he had “bought” them, but had intended to say (and meant) that they had been paid for and were not stolen; (2) that Mr Frydrysiak collected the goods in the van from a lorry parked in beside the road in a trading estate in the dark shortly before being stopped by the police; (3) that the lorry had recently passed through Belgium; (4) that the boxes of tobacco were transferred from the lorry to the van; (5) that Mr Frydrysiak paid the lorry driver about£5000 ; (6) that it is likely that Mr Frydrysiak knew that there was tobacco in the boxes. That is because: (a) given that Mr Frydrysiak was of muscular build, it was unlikely that he simply sat in the van while the lorry driver loaded the boxes into the back. It is likely that he participated in loading the van (b) we accept PC Clements' evidence that some of the boxes had been opened and consider it likely that Mr Frydrysiak have seen the contents of some of those boxes; (c) this quantity of tobacco would have released some smell which it is unlikely that Mr Frydrysiak did not notice; (d) the payment of£5000 (or£25 per kilogram) indicated that the goods were not ordinary groceries; nor were they bottled: had there been there would have been some clinking in transit or loading. (7) Even if Mr Frydrisiak had not seen or smelled the contents of the boxes, the sum he paid, and the circumstances of the collection (and his taking quieter roads on the way back) meant it was likely that he knew that the contents were not groceries. Events after Mr Frydrysiak was stopped. 43. Having taken Mr Frydrysiak home, the van and the contents were taken to Milton Keynes police station whence Mr Chaplin arranged for them to be taken away. The tobacco consisted of 138 kg of Golden Virginia hand rolling tobacco and 61kg Amber Leaf hand rolling tobacco. 44. Mrs Quarterman told us that she had been told by the seizing officer that the goods bore a Belgian Tax stamp. She showed us an email of24 September 2013 from Mr Chaplin in which he said that the goods bore a BNL (Belgium Netherlands Luxembourg) tax stamp [1] . Mr Chaplin’s seizure report said that the goods appeared to be of Belgian origin. We conclude that duty had been paid in Belgium on the goods on their release for consumption in that State. 45. Mr Frydrysiak told us that later, on1 December 2011 he phoned Mr Tejkowski to tell him what had happened. In the note of the meeting with Mrs Quaterman on23 January 2013 Mr Frydrysiak is recorded as having said that in the course of that telephone call Mr Tejowski had said that there must have been a mistake with the delivery and that he would sort everything out. 46. Mr Chaplin then wrote to Mr Tejkowski on12 December 2011 asking for an explanation, and to Mr Frydrysiak on14 December 2011 warning of liability to prosecution. Mr Frydrysiak is recorded at the23 January 2013 meeting as saying that he took the letter from Mr Chaplin to Mr Tejkowski who repeated that there must have been a mistake, there was nothing to worry about, not to tell anyone else about it, and that he would take care of the matter. 47. Then on9 January 2012 Mr Frydrysiak rang Mr Chaplin and said: (i) Mr Tejkowski had left the UK; (ii) Mr Tejkowski had asked Mr Frydrysiak to pay£4000 for the van. Mr Frydrysiak told us however that Mr Tejkowski was present beside him when he made this call and told him what to say to Mr Chaplin. Mr Tejkowski had written it out phonetically for him to say. He told us that he had not paid£4000 for the van. 48. On20 January 2012 Mr Frydrysiak said, in a letter to HMRC, that Mr Tejkowski, being afraid of what might happen to him, had left the UK to go back home. The letter also said that Mr Frydrysiak had offered to pay for the van "as a goodwill gesture being that I had caused the situation". He had since registered the van in his name. The letter said that Mr Tejkowski was "adamant" that he did not want to be involved in any way. 49. Mr Frydrysiak told us that the letter had been written by Mr Tejkowski but that he had signed it. 50. On22 March 2012 Mrs Quarterman wrote to Mr Frydrysiak asking him to contact her. The letter enclosed various fact sheets in English. Mr Frydrysiak telephoned in response on17 April 2012 and said that, since his English was not very good he would need an interpreter. There was further discussion and correspondence in the following six months in the course of which Mrs Quarterman sent fact sheets in Polish, and at a meeting was arranged - which Mr Frydrysiak missed. 51. On19 December 2012 Mr Frydrysiak wrote a formal letter to HMRC. It was clear that he had had help with its composition. It was not in the same type script or style as letter of9 January 2012 to Mr Chapman. It looked as if it had been drafted with professional help. In the letter he explained that he had trusted Mr Tejkowski’s the assurances and that he had been taken advantage of. The goods were not his and he was not the owner of the contents of the boxes. Evaluation 52. We accept that Mr Frydrysiak would not have written the letter of the20 January 2012 by himself. The language was that of someone more familiar with English than Mr Frydrysiak. 53. Although there are contradictions in parts of Mr Frydrysiak's accounts, and Mr Frydrysiak admits telling untruths (albeit under Mr Tejkowski’s direction), we find that it was likely that Mr Tejkowski had been involved in the acquisition of the tobacco and that Mr Frydrysiak was in some way working with or for him. We do not accept the suggestion made by Mr Hays that Mr Frydrysiak duped Mr Tejkowski and the£4000 was paid to Mr Tejkowski in compensation. The assessments 54. On21 November 2012 Mrs Quaterman wrote to Mr Frydrysiak with an assessment for£30,228 . Mr Frydrysiak sought a review, and on 25 February a reviewing officer upheld the assessment. By a notice of appeal of25 March 2103 Mr Frydrysiak appealed to this tribunal. 55. We address the assessment to a penalty at the end of this decision. Discussion – the assessment 56. This appeal concerns tobacco products duty, a duty of excise charged bysection 2 of the Tobacco Products Duty Act 1979 . 57. In HMRC v B&M Retail[2016] UKUT 429 (TCC) (which as we have noted was the appeal before the Upper Tribunal behind which this appeal was stayed after the hearing) the Upper Tribunal considered the legislative framework under which excise duties were levied. Its discussion was in the context of Alcoholic Liquor Duty, but the provisions it considered related to the collection of excise duties generally and are equally applicable to the levying and collection of tobacco duty 58. The Tribunal noted that Council Directive 2008/118/EC “lays down general arrangements for excise duty which seek to harmonise the principles to be applied across member states as regards the point at which excise duty should be levied on goods [and] principles governing the duty-suspended movement of goods between Member States”