"… you lot are always mumbling on and I cannot understand a word you lot are saying …"
"The appeal contains a strong factual element. However, there was a finding that Madden made a racial remark during one of 2 incidents leading to dismissal and the ETs concluding paragraph (10) is indigestible."
"7. A similar (if we may say, sensible) approach was taken to the issue of comparators. In the grounds of appeal only one was advanced, Maxine Russell, and after debate between ourselves and Mr Harding it is not to be pursued any further, since it is recognised that there is a finding of fact about the circumstances of Ms Russell's case and whether the Tribunal is right or wrong it is for the Tribunal to make those decisions. So, with Mr Harding's help, we are able to focus on the grounds of appeal which will go forward. The Notice of Appeal, which will be extant before a full hearing, does not include paragraphs 18 - 29 or paragraphs 40 - 49, except by way of background only. 8. We have attempted to separate the unfair dismissal aspect from the dismissal on the grounds of race discrimination aspects of this case, but that is too difficult a task at this stage and it will be a matter for the full hearing. We draw attention to the judgment which we gave in London Ambulance Service NHS Trust v Small (judgment pending in CA) for the purpose of examining material (which was or ought to have been available to an employer in the light of allegations of misconduct), and note this case is one which includes contentions relating to procedure and the Tribunal's criticism of Mr Orr for not participating fully in the procedure will be borne in mind by the EAT which has the full case. "
"It must be recalled also that the Employment Tribunal is now specifically required by the Employment Tribunal Rules, rule 30 (6), to set out the findings of fact which it makes relevant to the issues which it has to decide. In this case, the Tribunal had set out that there were agreed facts and there were disputed facts. It follows if there are disputed facts, as identified by the Tribunal following submissions of Counsel, it is under an obligation to determine them if they are relevant to the decision, as they were. In this case, there were issues as to the grounds upon which the Respondent formed its belief, whether that belief was genuine, whether there was a reasonable investigation informing that belief, and whether on this material it was reasonable to dismiss. In addition, were allegations conduct and contribution (sic)."
"The parties agree that the legal principles on conduct dismissals are those set out by the EAT 30 years ago in its judgment in British Home Stores Ltd v. Burchall[1978] IRLR 379 and affirmed by this court in Post Office v. Foley2000 ICR 1283 . The essential terms of enquiry for the ET were whether, in all the circumstances, the Trust carried out a reasonable investigation and, at the time of dismissal, genuinely believed on reasonable grounds that Mr Small was guilty of misconduct. If satisfied of the Trust's fair conduct of the dismissal in those respects, the ET then had to decide whether the dismissal of Mr Small was a reasonable response to the misconduct."
"The questions of law on this appeal relate to the ET's application of the legal principles when, as is often the case, there are related issues, in this case contributory fault and breach of contract. In quite a few cases the related issues will include constructive dismissal and, increasingly, discrimination in, or associated with, the dismissal. The additional issues require findings of fact. The additional facts are not the same facts as relate to the issue of the fairness of the dismissal."
" ... that the ET made findings of fact about conduct issues that were in dispute in the disciplinary proceedings. It then wrongly used its factual findings, which were based on the evidence that it had heard, in order to substitute its own decision on Mr Small's conduct dismissal for that of the Trust. Mr Reynold cited the decision of this court in Morgan v. Electrolux Ltd[1991] ICR 369 for the proposition that it was an error of law for the employment tribunal to substitute its own evaluation of the witness or of the evidence for that of the employer. The ET must consider the reasonableness of the employer's conduct. In judging that the ET was not to substitute its view as to what was the right course to adopt for that of the employer. 31. On the issue of liability, as distinct from the issues of contributory fault, the ET was not, as the EAT thought, bound to make the findings of fact that it used in deciding whether the dismissal was fair."
"B. Substitution and misapplication … 41. On the liability issue the ET ought to have confined its consideration to facts relating to the Trust's handling of Mr Small's dismissal: the genuineness of the Trust's belief and the reasonableness of the grounds of its belief about the conduct of Mr Small at the time of the dismissal. Instead, the ET introduced its own findings of fact about the conduct of Mr Small, including aspects of it that had been disputed at the disciplinary hearing. For example, the ET found that the daughter, who did not give evidence to the ET, had not told Mr Small that her mother was hypertensive and diabetic. Further, on the point whether Mr Small had done a risk assessment before asking the patient to walk, the ET held that there was no evidence that he had failed to carry out a risk assessment, but Mr Suter gave evidence to the ET that the critical issue before the disciplinary panel was that Mr Small had not carried out a proper patient assessment, before the decision was made. 42. The ET used its findings of fact to support its conclusion that, at the time dismissal, the Trust had no reasonable grounds to its belief about Mr Small's conduct and therefore no genuine belief about it. By this process of reasoning the ET found that the dismissal was unfair. In my judgment, this amounted to the ET substituting itself and its findings for the Trust's decision maker in relation to Mr Small's dismissal. 43. It is all too easy, even for an experienced ET, to slip into the substitution mindset. In conduct cases the claimant often comes to the ET with more evidence and with an understandable determination to clear his name and to prove to the ET that he is innocent of the charges made against him by his employer. He has lost his job in circumstances that may make it difficult for him to get another job. He may well gain the sympathy of the ET so that it is carried along the acquittal route and away from the real question - whether the employer acted fairly and reasonably in all the circumstances at the time of the dismissal. C. Separate and gradual fact-finding 44. I agree with the EA T that the ET was bound to make findings of fact about Mr Small's conduct for the purpose of deciding the extent to which Mr Small's conduct contributed to his dismissal. That was a different issues from whether the Trust unfairly dismissed Mr Small for misconduct. Contributory fault only arose for decision, if it was established that the dismissal was unfair. The contributory fault decision was one of the ET to make on the evidence that it had heard. It was never a decision for the Trust to make. That makes it different from the decision to dismiss, which was for the Trust to make. It was not the role of the ET to conduct a re-hearing of the facts which formed the basis of the Trust's decision to dismiss. The ET's proper role was objectively to review the fairness of Mr Small's decision by the Trust. 45. I am unable to agree with the EAT that the ET kept the issues and the relevant facts separate or that it avoided the error of substituting its own judgment about dismissal. Although the ET rightly warned itself against substitution and thought that it was not falling into that error, my reading of the reasons is that its findings of fact about Mr Small's conduct seeped into its reasoning about the unfairness of the dismissal. 46. Mr Marsh [counsel for the Respondent, Mr Small] spoke of his experience that ETs often structure their reasons by setting out all findings of fact in one place and then drawing on the findings at the later stages of applying the law to the relevant facts. It is not the function of appeal courts to tell trial tribunals and courts how to write their judgments. As a general rule, however, it might be better practice in an unfair dismissal case for the ET to keep its findings on that particular issue separate from its findings on disputed facts that are relevant to other issues, such as contributory fault, constructive dismissal and, increasingly, discrimination and victimisation claims. Of course, some facts will be relevant to more than one issue, but the legal elements of the different issues, the role of the ET and the relevant facts are not necessarily all the same. Separate and sequential findings of fact on discrete issues may help to avoid errors of law, such as substitution, even if it may lead to some duplication."
"We are not satisfied that the Claimant has proved facts from which we could conclude that the Respondents had committed an act of discrimination. We have before us a body of evidence which has supported our finding that the Respondents acted reasonable (sic) in treating the Claimants conduct as a reason for dismissal (sic) there is nothing within that evidence from which could be drawn and influence that (sic) his race or ethnic origin were in any way material to do (sic) that decision. … [we omit a sentence relating to comparators, who, for the reasons set out above, are not relevant to this appeal] … Accordingly we do not find the Claimants dismissal to have been an act of discrimination."
"The metaphor of a "taint" of discrimination is attractive and sometimes useful, but it may be ambiguous and what is meant by it needs to be clearly understood. A decision can be said to be tainted by discrimination if the decision-taker is motivated, even sub-consciously, to a significant extent by the complainant's race (or sex, or whatever it may be). But … [counsel for the Appellant] … seemed to use the terms "tainted" or "infected" also to refer to the fact that the whole incident of 23 March, and thus the dismissal of 24 March, would not have occurred but for the earlier incident on 6 March, which the Tribunal found to involve discrimination on the Respondents' part, and that one was an important cause of the other. This approach, however, seems to us to fall foul of Lord Nicholl's well-known observations in Chief Constable of West Yorkshire Police v Khan[2001] ICR 1065 (picking up his earlier speech in Nagarajan v London Regional Transport [ 1999] ICR 877 ) to the effect that tribunal's should eschew the language of "causation", which he described as "slippery", and should instead ask what was the reason why the decision-taker acted as he did."