“… is (sic) some cases we have had women in the BC who are having a VBAC this may depend on staffing levels at the time of admission”
“Plans are never written in stone or set instone; they are written at the time when we have a meeting,which is maybe four or five weeks before the birth. Many things -- pregnancy and labour is very dynamic and things can change. That's why when women come in and that's why when we had the discussion we talked about [the Claimant’s mother] would be monitored when she first came in and have a holistic assessment and, based on that, whether the plan would still be -- and based on availability on the labour ward whether the plan would be executed or not.”
“I didn'teven know that I was going to the birth centre until I gotwheeled into the birth centre. And there was no discussionwhatsoever that there was no wireless monitoring and whether it was appropriate for me to go into the pool because nobodyhad reviewed it and nobody had been even present for the previous hour and a half. We had been in that triage and I had been not watched, had nobody take concern over me. I had no midwife checking on me. I had no monitoring for almost twohours. And the fact that someone had come into a room andput me in a wheelchair because I was pushing and in an immense deal of pain, I was with a midwife. I had no -- I had no -- nothing was going on around me other than I had a midwife. That was -- no discussion was had aboutmonitoring. No discussion was about: would you like to getinto the pool? Is it appropriate to get into the pool? I was having a baby imminently, I had been told. And I had no -- there was no birth plan.”
“So it's normal to have handover. So themidwife that's bringing in will tell you the history. And this was given to me by Midwife Havire. She brought the client over. And she took her straight into the room. I followed after a couple of minutes. I went in and she was running a pool. And she -- she introduced me to the client. And (s)he told me that she was a VBAC. And I questioned whyshe was on the birth centre because this wasn't normal. Andshe said that it was okay; that there had been a plan.There had been a lot of discussion and the plan was made with Consultant Midwife Cathy Falvey-Browne. And that this was the plan that was agreed. Q. Who was in this discussion? A. Well, it was between myself and Midwife Havire; but it took place, the three of us was together. So it was queried, Midwife Havire told me the plan. And then she asked the client. And she confirmed that that was the correct plan.”
“DEPUTY JUDGE MASKREY: If we -- as we know,intermittent auscultation increases the risk of failing tonote a uterine rupture, and that's because it's a snapshot every 15 minutes, then wouldn't you expect midwifery staff to be erring on the side of their having been an entry into the second stage, so that they can then auscultate morefrequently. A. So my short answer is "yes".”
“DEPUTY JUDGE MASKREY: You seem to be saying to me that if the midwifery staff reasonably come to the conclusion that she is not yet in second stage then it is unnecessary for them, even in the context of this case, to confirm or refute that with a vaginal examination? A. Yes. That's my evidence.”
“What would your reaction have been to being told that night by the midwives that the course of action being proposed by your wife was -- was risky? A. I would have asked the midwife to explain why; and,if there was any risk, I would have said: don't -- don't go for it. Q. To whom would you have said that? A. To the midwife and to Katie. Q. And, knowing your wife as you do, what do you think the prospects of changing her mind? This is of course on the premise that she had come in with a fixed desire to have intermittent auscultation if -- having spoken to you aboutit, do you think you would have succeeded in changing her mind? A. Yes. Katie is risk averse. She was very concerned for her baby and herself. She would only have wanted the safest course of action.”
“So I would expect any midwife to take it seriously and take further action. So depending on – on what she saw or felt or – so certainly I would have expected with any of those signs for – so continuous pain, for example or any bleeding or any scar tenderness, to get her out of the pool and call, at the same time, for an obstetrician”
“Dr Dear, do you understand Dr Emmerson as effectively saying that if you maintain the heart rate at 80 to 90 bpm, if it is maintained at that rate, there does, in fact, come a time when subcortical damage occurs? Whereas you are saying if you maintain the heart rate at 80 to 90 bpm there doesn't come a time when subcortical damage occurs. It is either no damage or watershed damage. A. Yes, I think you've – DEPUTY JUDGE MASKREY: Is that the difference, as you understand it? A. I think you've characterised the difference very well, yes.”
“DEPUTY JUDGE MASKREY: And it seems to me thatwhat you might be doing is saying: because Myers is right, this must have started at 01.24. And this must have started at 01.24 because Myers is right. A. Yes, I see what you mean. It is still my view that those ten minutes -- I appreciate the question that has been put to me, that -- that there were -- that I'm doublecounting the ten minutes, but I think that the ten minutesat the outset was not causing -- that if -- if there were ten minutes beforehand, I don't think that they -- that they were causing - had started the process of potential brain injury until 01.24. MR NOLAN: But you can't identify to my Lord anything which -- specific on the evidence which differentiates 1.14 to 1.24 from 1.24 to 1.34. There's no distinction between those two ten minute periods? A. From -- in what respect? I'm sorry. Q. Nothing happens to make the first period differentto the second period. A. Well, we don't know. Q. You -- I'm giving you the opportunity to identifyanything – A. Yes, well, I don't know. I think that -- as I saidat the outset, given that it's unclear as to what's -- what is going on, and we don't know that there is a persistent bradycardia between 01.14 and 01.24. Q. That has been assumed by all the experts throughoutthe case, hasn't it? A. Has it?”