"Has this child been abused?"
"… [T]he children have been having nightmares about him taking them away... They are also naughty with me after they see him. They call me names and tell me (especially the older) they hate me. I believe that he is not behaving appropriately. I am quite upset about this as when the children have not seen him, they are okay. I believe that he needs to see a therapist as his lack of morals and the realisation that what he has done and what he is doing is wrong could be bordering on schizophrenia. His half-sister has recently been diagnosed with manic depression (bipolar). I also believe that he is taking cocaine, drinking and smoking pot... Is there a person who could advise me with regard to the children's psychology and how to deal with this man?"
"That evening I discover that my basement door is unlocked... My daughter A has also mentioned to me over dinner that they saw daddy in the house whilst we slept the night before (she could have been dreaming). But this amplifies my suspicions about F [the father] and the mystery of the basement door."
"I stress that I do not trust my husband at all and will be very wary of his intentions. Goodness knows the people he may introduce to my children if he were to take them away. They are both very pretty. I do not mean to brag."
"I thought this might be of interest to you."
"At the end of the session, I recommended child play therapy for a child with typical emotional reactions during the crisis of a family break up: anxiety, fear, anger, self-blame and loss. There was nothing during the interview that indicated sexual abuse. It had not been even mentioned at this time."
"... started to introduce sexual imagery about B, saying on 17 March 'she has been pre-occupied with her breasts since a phone call with daddy last week'. The mother continued to impress upon me in my individual sessions with her and quietly during the play therapy work with B, her continuing concern that 'something has happened'. Despite this, no overt sexual disclosures of any nature occurred concerning anyone that appeared in the non-directive play work."
"Am I being seduced by this woman?"
"If it is your position that any form of overnight staying contact is not appropriate, it is imperative that we are able to say precisely why. You will need to set out in detail precisely why you consider that staying contact is not appropriate. The court is very unlikely to prevent overnight staying contact because of friction between the parents subsequent to separation, and even aggressive or abusive behaviour between respective parents will not necessarily preclude contact, so long as that behaviour does not relate directly to the children. If there are specific allegations or indeed evidence of some form of abuse of the children, whether that be physical or verbal, then, if you are to oppose staying contact (successfully), then the position will need to be set out by you in full."
"There are clearly many anxieties about the nature and understanding of B's very significant anxiety and her preoccupation with her genital area, associated with obsessional anxiety about contamination, being touched and a very significant degree of sensitivity. In my view, she is a highly vulnerable child and she is going to require a significant amount of psychotherapeutic work to help understand the nature of her anxieties. It is in the interests of both A and B for any contact with their father to be regular and circumscribed in nature. It would not be in the interests of either of the children, given the degree of anxiety and emotional difficulties, to have overnight staying contact with their father. In my view, there is far too much uncertainty about the nature of the children's anxieties and without a greater degree of knowledge or information and understanding it would not be in their interests for there to be other than circumscribed contact with their father at this point. It will be important to have the opportunity of meeting the father to get a picture of his perspective."
"A lot of the behavioural patterns displayed by B are known to be associated with sexual abuse but there was no direct statement or questions asked as this would have been inappropriate, as this was a psychiatric assessment. I did not say to the mother that the children had definitely been sexually abused or that they would make a disclosure of sexual abuse. As somebody who has worked in this field as an expert, I am very aware of the court's view about the nature of the allegations and not making direct statements or asking direct questions. That is also why I advised Mr. Dermody to continue with a non-directive approach."
"Obsessional characteristics of sexually abused child. Obsession with cleanliness, clothing, not changing, routines, lying with her leg open, 'Oh, mummy', touched her genitals"
"Looking back, what I am explaining to myself is that an obsession with cleanliness can be evidence that a child has been sexually abused"
"WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO GIVE MY CHILDREN PART TIME TO BE LOOKED AFTER BY HIM JUST BECAUSE HE HAS RIGHTS? He is unfit to have A and B because of his emotional imbalances... I will fight for as long as it takes to have complete control of the children and for him to have as little money as possible."
"Daddy tells us not to speak about him here"
"This evening I told the children, as they stood beside me as I was writing to you, that I was writing an email to Simon, as they had asked what I was doing. B immediately said: 'Are you going to tell Simon about daddy, how he poohs out of his willy and pees out of his bottom?'"
"[B] smiled, as did A, and they both seemed quite excited to tell me that they both had. A lot was said by the two girls, but A took the lead. She said that the first time was when B was born. He took her to the loos in the private maternity wing of the hospital where he squeezed his willy like this', and showed me. She said that whitish, yellowish and greenish liquid came out. That night, she said, daddy asked to do it for her. She said that daddy would ask her to do it every day before lunchtime... A told me that this continued until we moved into the new house, December 2006, after which she said that he just stopped without any explanation, without saying why. A said that he did it with her and her sister B from when B was born. A would touch, stroke his 'spaghetti pasta thing' and B would hold or stroke his 'ball'."
"Asked the children if daddy had ever asked them to put it into their mouths. A said yes, but they did not want to. She said that it felt wrong. B said that she liked touching daddy's willy. A said that although she did, it felt wrong. The children did not like the whitish, yellowish, greenish liquid that came out and that he would put into loo paper. They said that it smelt horrible. I asked A whether daddy had ever touched her private area. She said no, only when she was a baby, and he would wash her private area and her bum."
"When the children had finished talking, they asked for hot milk and cookies. I let them watch a short video in bed, and they said that we were having a midnight party. The children were cheerful and happy and wanted to talk about it more. That night we all slept very well, there were no nightmares."
"There has been further disclosure today. When I took the children for their afternoon nap, B said that everything that they had said about daddy was a lie. I did not respond to this comment but instead I told her and A that they had been very good at telling me about daddy and his willy. I said that when we would go back to London that I would make sure that it would all stop and not happen again. I also told them that it was wrong. I then reinforced the fact that they had done the right thing. I said that they would still see daddy. B looked at A and they both started speaking about their daddy. A said that it was disgusting what he did with them, especially the gooey stuff coming out. B said that the goo tasted like blood. A said that she had got a spoon to try it but it was disgusting. B said that she had put his ball thing in her mouth. A and B are giggling. B said that daddy put it on her cheeks and that it felt nice. I asked A whether daddy had put it anywhere else. A said that daddy had put it and rolled it on the inside thighs, on their arms and on their bottoms."
"My daddy took pictures of my private area and he put his willy inside me and wee'd"
"You are meant to be asking me about daddy", and added that she needed help as her father had abused her. The mother spoke in front of the children about talking to her legal team. On 2 April, in another session with MD, the mother talked again about the allegations and said that she hoped that in future the father might be guilty in relation to other acts of child abuse. She also referred to a chef who worked in the family restaurant about whom she said there had been previously concerns about child abuse. There had, she said, been a court case because he had been found in bed with a nine year old boy. She also said that the chef had told her once of a visit he had made to a gay club where a fat man dressed in leather had two children on leads. The mother said to MD that this was the first she realised that there was "this kind of world out there"
"I am finishing off the report now and want to ask you a question. In my conclusion, should I give an overall opinion about the validity of the allegations or should I simply set out our findings and allow the court to decide? We have no instructions about this report so I wanted to clarify."
"Rarely has oral evidence shone such light on a case. Rarely has the position been so clear by the case's conclusion."
"Common sense, not law, requires that in deciding this question regard should be had, to whatever extent appropriate, to inherent probabilities" - Lord Hoffmann in Re B at para.15. (3) "
"full transection at three o'clock. Edges smooth. No bruising. No bleeding. No erythema"
"A was examined lying on her back with her leg apart, supine frog leg position. On inspection of her external genitalia, the appearance was that of a normal pre-pubertal female. There were no fresh injuries or vaginal discharge noted. Gentle labial traction was then applied to expose the vestibule of the hymen. There was a full thickness transection seen in the hymen at three o'clock position. This transection did not appear to represent a recent injury as there was no associated redness, bruising or bleeding or pain. A DVD recording was made which was kept securely at The Haven. On review of this recording it was also apparent that there is a significant loss of hymenal tissue between the one o'clock and three o'clock positions."
"The genital and anal examination was done in the lithotomy frog position and in the knee-chest position. The examination of the hymen showed a full transection at three o'clock. The transection did not look fresh. There was no erythema, no bleeding and no bruising... I recorded that the genital and anal examination was made on DVD. The DVD is kept at The Haven. After viewing the DVD, it appeared that there was a loss of hymenal tissue between one and three o'clock."
"I do not agree that there is a transection of the hymen at three o'clock... There appears to be a cleft adjacent to the bump at four o'clock"
"The fact that both girls have normal genital examinations does not preclude the possibility that abuse has occurred"
"When you read the guidelines in total, it is clear that the only transections, deep clefts or notches being brought into question are those in the posterior half 180 degrees from three o'clock to nine o'clock clockwise. It is accepted by every researcher published to date that there are normally occurring clefts or notches in the ventral nine to three half of the hymen because you have normal hymenal variants such as a crescentic hymen or posterior rim in which there are naturally occurring notches that extend to the base of the hymen at 11 and 1, or 10 to 2, or in fact hymens that insert into the vaginal wall close to nine and three o'clock, leaving the ventral half without a hymen."
"We are extremely careful. I would never have written that if it was not truly, truly what I believed I saw"
"In a crescentric hymen, the hymen may insert onto the vaginal wall anywhere from 9.30 to 2.30 and so there may be no hymen in the ventral portion of the examination and that is a normal finding"
"In the ventral or anterior 180 degrees going clockwise from nine to three, there has been documented in every research project looking at normal anatomy that there are going to be defects, notches, clefts that extend to the base of the hymen because of the nature of the variations of a normal hymen, so I would never call a defect or a notch in the ventral 180 degrees a transection"
"the truth is does my daddy have a bicycle and a lie is does my daddy love my mum."
"I don't feel like talking"
"my daddy was being mean to us so my mum put him outside"
"when I was a baby he used to pinch, nothing else"
"It is quite scary about Captain Hook", and asked the officer: "
"It is really mean. Why do you think Captain Hook was being mean to Peter Pan?"
"Do you think there is anybody that is a bit nasty like Captain Hook?", to which B replied. "
"Is there any other time that you have seen your daddy being nasty to mummy?", to which B replied: "
"I don't know, it didn't happen"
"Daddy touched us", pointing at her genital area and added: "and then it bled"
"Because it was funny"
"Did he ask A whether he could touch her one as well?", to which she replied: "
"Because this is the daddy journal so that when we get bigger we can remember what our daddy done to us"
"First, it is long here and it has got a ball here". (I should mention at that point that it is agreed that the father has only one testicle.) A went on: "
"They did it three times. The first one was Nicholas, the second one was Marat, then it was Bob, then it was Thomas. Then who didn't I say? Then it was Tom"
"You can tell me whatever you want"
"Your mummy told me that you had some more things to tell me"
"We called their willies a carrot or a pasta string and we went to this party. There was this baby called Daisy, and there was this woman called Gold, just like gold, and she was daddy's girlfriend, and those men had three heads and they put their willies in our private area and they told us to suck in and their willies disappeared into our private area and they were all the way up to our tummy and it really hurt and that is all I need to say"
"Thank you", to which A replied: "
"They took the baby to the toilet, then daddy touched her private area. He put his willy inside her private area . The private area got big and red and she cried and her mummy came in and we got kicked out of the party"
"And she did not give us party bags. Really, she held us up and kicked us out. Daddy said, 'We will never go to that house again'."
"Curse my acid tongue"
"Words come out of my mouth. I can't even know -- I don't know what I'm saying because sometimes I forget things"
"I can't believe I did that again. Daddy taught me how to do it"
"I got it wrong again"
"he had to be punished, has to be punished"
"Why is he attacking her eyes? She was seeing something that he does not want her to talk about. Since the allegations it made sense why her eyes were being attacked"
"Aren't you jealous of your husband? All the mummies are in love with him"
"They were excited. They wanted to tell, so I listened. It was all done in a playful way, not a heavy way. I went into play mode. It was like a game. I synchronized with them. I am good at switching. I go into kid mode"
"Yes, it was very good of you what you said"
"It was not lies. I understand these children very well"
"Of course I asked the children questions. What mother would not when it has been going on for years and years? It is my duty to protect them"
"There are different ways of questioning. You have to see it in the context of what the children are saying"
"He's got a girlfriend for each night of the week"
"I do not believe the Newtonian theory that there is space between the planets"
"'You never stop learning', and that was enough for them"
"Mummy is an idiot. I am going to kill you, A, mummy and her parents"
"The children were spoken to very briefly but would not/could not provide any details of the phone call. They seemed nervous, withdrawn and apprehensive at the prospect of speaking with uniformed officers"
"Rarely has oral evidence shone such light on a case. Rarely has the position been so clear by the case's conclusion.
"Expressing doubt is saying 'I might have got this wrong'. If somebody is going out of their way to mislead, to draw attention to possible doubt is potentially problematic. That kind of behaviour is far more consistent with coming to believe that something is not true"