“There is a question as to whether the court takes the realistic course of applying this to the date when we all know he actually died, even though that was not known at the time the argument finished.”
“the Court does not act in vain. If the court knows that he died on a certain date then it would be absurd to pretend that he died on a different date”
“I am not inviting at the moment, do not say anything”
“MR GRACE QC: “No” what I was about to say was I do not know and the evidence is complete in the case. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: It is complete Yes. MR GRACE QC: Therefore I do not have any need to find out. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: In that case we will just proceed on the basis that I will make by findings based on the evidence and my view as to the probabilities based on that evidence. MR GRACE QC: Yes. MS. MISHCON: My Lord, just to throw a spanner in the works, there is a case which your Lordship may wish to look at which is a case arising out of solicitor's negligence. It is a case called Charles and Hugh James and I cannot remember the third name of the solicitors' firm. I can find that out for you. I apologise I cannot remember but I can e-mail it through to your Lordship. That is a case where when they are looking at a personal injury claim that has somehow gone wrong because it was not served in time or something went wrong procedurally, and then you are looking at what has happened since, you look at the notional trial date and what is happening at the time of the judge giving the solicitor's negligence claim for not having brought the personal injury claim in time. What has happened since is taken into account because in certain situations there may have been deterioration in the Claimant's health that was not foreseen at the time of the notional trial date. There are various aspects. It may just be a case that your Lordship wishes to look at on the basis that if it can be known what has happened in between it is perhaps something that should have been asked. I am trying to assist your Lordship in having a look at that point in considering whether it would in fact be an appropriate case that one would have to consider in these very unusual circumstances, because again this is a case where I do not think there is any precedent. All I am saying is that if the case had been settled when it should have been settled in these personal injury cases, the claim could have been much more or much less, but the court has to look at what it actually knows now that it is dealing with it some three or four years later down the line. It was held by the Court of Appeal that it should actually, that what you find out after the date when it would have been heard should be taken into account. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: I am not sure that is an exact analogy with this situation though, is it? In that case it is saying, from your description of it, that if you are quantifying the loss you look beyond the date on which the original claim was made to the point at which the new claim from the solicitor's negligence is being heard, and between those two periods of time you can look at what actually happened. This is different. This is looking at what has happened between the date of the close of the trial and the writing of the judgment. MS. MISHCON: My Lord, that is what I was leading to when I said it was difficult to agree in circumstances where if in fact you were taking the date of quantification as at the date of trial, then that might be the way that your Lordship has to look at it, but if your Lordship is taking quantification as at the date of quantum judgment, then it is very difficult to make a decision on what has happened in between on the basis of an argument that was put forward a year ago and may or may not have happened. That is all I am flagging up, my Lord, and I feel that it may be right to do so, because we are changing the normal course of events. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: Yes, but you have agreed that past losses should continue until the date of quantum judgment. It does not follow from that that I can do it on the basis of anything other than the evidence which I have heard on the basis on which I have to make a finding. Either way, if we took the date as 1st October, I would have to make a finding as to what would probably have happened this last year. As it is, on the basis of the agreement between the parties, I am going to have to make a finding on the balance of probabilities as to what has happened based on that evidence. MS. MISHCON: My Lord, I am not sure whether that would be the correct approach given the case that I have referred to, but your Lordship I am sure can look at that case and see whether you think that it is appropriate in this case. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: Are you making a submission? MS. MISHCON: My Lord, it is very difficult to know because I do not know what your Lordship is going to do. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: It is not a question of what I am going to do. It is a question of whether you are making a submission. As things stand I am constrained by the evidence that was given, because I have no other evidence. MS. MISHCON: My Lord, I think that may well be the case, but that is because at the moment there has not been any question as to what has happened in between. My Lord, I do not know what the answer is. That is the difficulty in this case, because we have no precedent to go by. This is so unusual that we are agreeing, if you like, a different date for quantification that is over a year or a year ahead of the date that we were all looking at, when obviously your Lordship had to deal with it on the balance of probabilities. I was trying to assist your Lordship because I did not want at any later stage there to be any argument that had not been raised at this time. My Lord, I have no idea in truth, because I have not thought about it or looked at it enough, I know this case and I know this case from solicitor's negligence cases and I know how applicable it is in this case, I have not properly addressed my mind as to whether or not it is applicable in this case.All I am doing is asking your Lordship perhaps to have a look at the case and see whether or not your Lordship feels that it is a case that has to be taken into account. I cannot make any greater submission than that, my Lord, because there is no precedent to go by. I just felt I should alert your Lordship to that case.. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: What is the authority? MS. MISHCON: It is Charles and Hugh James and something or other. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: Could you e-mail my Clerk with the reference? MS. MISHCON: Absolutely. It has been followed since, my Lord. MR. GRACE: I think it is really not relevant to this situation. Obviously in a solicitor's negligence case the court does not act in vain if there is evidence before it as to what has happened since the date when the original trial would have come on. It would be futile for the court to pretend that things were other than what the court already knew. We have already discussed the question of Mr. Manning's death and obviously the court knows of that and knows of the date, but there is no evidence other than what your Lordship has heard. Therefore, that is the basis on which your Lordship has to proceed. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: Is there anything else? MR. GRACE: I think not. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: I think it then looks as though we do not need a further hearing.The only circumstance in which we would need another hearing would be if having got my draft judgment (A) the parties do want to make written submissions on the effect of the agreement that the cutoff point is the date of quantum judgment, and (B) if having read those submissions I feel that there is a need for it in which case I will shout. It seems to me, therefore, there is no point in fixing a date for a hearing because we may not need one. MR. GRACE: Not for those purposes, no. MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: For any purposes. No, we will need a hearing. We are going to need a hearing for costs. (emphasis added). There then followed an exchange on the future timetable for circulating the draft judgment, handing down of the judgment and the possibility of a further hearing between those two events, which included the following: MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: The handing down of the judgment does not require more than 30 seconds or five minutes, maybe half an hour. The only thing that could take time is if there is an intermediate hearing before judgment is formally handed down on this question of the cut off date.”
“MS. MISHCON: My Lord, is it the draft judgment coming down in about three weeks or are you talking about the draft judgment coming down before then? MR. JUSTICE STADLEN: No, before then. I am talking about the hearing in three weeks, prior to which you will have had the draft.(emphasis added).”