“Appealing the judge’s decision regarding my daughter [L’s] adoption. The judge refused to consider our revocation order or hear any evidence. The evidence we had proved that the allegations against us are false.”
“Upon the application for permission to appeal in relation to the child (T) being listed today and heard at the same time as an application for permission to appeal in relation to the child (L); and upon hearing the appellant parents, first respondent local authority and the second respondent child; and upon the court having heard submissions on behalf of all parties in relation to the applications for permission to appeal and inviting further written submissions; It is ordered that: 1) By 2.00 p.m. on25 November 2014 the parties shall file and serve any further written submissions in relation to the application for permission to appeal. 2) The application is listed for judgment hearing…on5 December 2014 ….”
“(m) in the end I treated the appeal hearing as dealing with all points arising from both the L and the T cases. (n) given that the Guardian was unable to attend the hearing on 21st and the nature of the appeal evolved during that hearing, I allowed anyone who wished to, to file further written submissions by close of play November 25th.”
“(d) In the instant case, the threshold facts related entirely to the complaints of the children. Any court considering such an evidential base is obliged to consider whether children should give evidence – in accordance with the principles set out in Re W (Children) (Family Proceedings: Evidence)[2010] UKSC 12 . In essence, the court is required to examine the advantages that the children giving evidence will bring to the determination of the truth, and the damage giving evidence may do to the children’s welfare (ibid, para 24). (e) In the instance (sic) case I can find no record of any decision being taken by the court as to whether the children should give evidence. Counsel have been unable to find such a ruling in a court order, and there is no note of such a judgment on the file. (Father) believed he and (Mother) had wanted the children to give evidence, but that the Guardian and BCC had not wanted them to give evidence. It may be that in the face of such a position the advocates for the parents made no application. I do not know. (f) However, since this is a question of observing the article 6 and article 8 rights of the parents and the children, it is not an issue that is dependent on an application. The court is obliged to make such a determination, and to record its decision. Such a decision may be straightforward and require few reasons in some cases, but it is still an exercise the court must perform. (g) If the court has not performed that exercise, then I struggle to see how the hearing could properly said to be article 6 compliant…” (At (h) the judge summarised the key features relevant to deciding whether to call oral evidence from a child highlighted by Baroness Hale in Re W at paragraphs 25 to 30.) “(i) In this case, these were children who were, or who were very nearly, 14, 13 and 12. The case depended almost entirely on what they had said – there was little or no objective evidence to support their complaints. Their complaints were the totality of the threshold facts “pleaded”
“This paragraph highlights the difficulties that arise in a case in which the children are not called to give evidence at the primary fact finding hearing, and subsequently change their account. The reason for the change of account in B’s case alighted on by the Guardian is supposition, it has never been put to B. If B had given evidence, this matter could be put to him, and explored. He is, after all, a child with rights, and with views – whether as a victim, or as a sibling of children affected by the court’s procedure. He deserves respect. Not hearing from him, and allowing others to speculate on his behalf is a very old fashioned way of showing him respect. I struggle to see how it is Re W compliant.”
“The material in relation to recanting by the children wouldn’t found a revocation application, it would found an appeal either against the October 2013 findings on the basis of fresh evidence and/or against the making of the orders in June 2014.”
“There is nothing in the fact find judgment about any consideration being given to the children giving evidence.”
“The short point is there’s no treatment in [the judgment] of the question of whether the children should give evidence. … The judge has to make a determination, and it’s not application-driven, it’s for the judge to make an article 6 determination.”
“[Judge]: The judge has not in either of the judgments directly addressed the suggestion that the children had, to whatever degree, recanted. [LA Counsel]: There’s no specific reference to that, on the paragraph that I have already drawn your Honour’s attention to and the difference in two accounts. [Judge]: There is no treatment of the question of whether the children should give evidence.”
“All right. I may have to find out when that was considered. Thank you.” [Judge]: There is no treatment of the question of whether the children should give evidence.”
“That is what I have spent some time looking at because it seems to me in relation to [L] the appeal really had two strands, and what came to me as an appeal had two strands. One was the question as to whether the retractions merited another look at the facts and the other was what advances [the parents] had made in terms of their ability properly to parent the children. … In looking at the original fact find … there are one or two things that I have been concentrating on. There doesn’t appear to be a treatment in the fact find judgment of what was then the partial retraction by [C] and/or [B1]. [LA Counsel] may correct me in respect of [B1]. There is nothing in that judgment to address the point of whether the children should have given evidence, although [Father] told me that there had been an application made that the children should give evidence, opposed by the guardian, opposed by the local authority, ruled on by the judge that they shouldn’t. But if that is a decision that was made then the record of it doesn’t appear in the judgment on the fact finding.” 30. Counsel for the local authority then clarified her instructions which were that the issue of the children giving evidence was never raised before the judge, but that it may have been mooted by the parties outside court, to which the judge responded: “No. Again what I said I will repeat for Mr Spollon’s benefit: the question of the children giving evidence is one for the judge, whether or not raised by the parties, so it has to be adjudicated on at some point even if everyone agrees with what is being done, even if no-one opposes the route taken, and it troubles me in this case that there is no record of it now.”
“The other difficulty in managing this appeal is that it has evolved, and I acknowledge this as a difficulty for the local authority and the guardian responding to it. It came to me as one thing. I looked at the papers I then had and was concerned about a different thing, which was the treatment of the holistic analysis in the judgment, and it has now become a very different thing, which is a much more fundamental question about the fact finding, leaving aside the questions of [the parents] making progress since. So what I am trying to manage at the moment is what I do with this appeal is not necessarily definitively in terms of outcome but how I properly allow people to participate in the hearing to make this hearing Article 6 compliant, because [LA counsel] might justifiably say to me: ‘I am trying to shoot at a moving target. Would you just stand still for a minute?’”
“If there are points, as there are in this case, that trouble me deeply, that call for some form of resolution and judgment by me but might be any one of a number of different things, what opportunity do you want on [the guardian’s] behalf to participate in this hearing?”
“All right. What I am going to do is take a little bit of time to think. I’m not going to give you an outcome today. So what I will try and do is list this case in the next two weeks or so for a hearing at which, if there are any other points upon which I want submissions, I will receive them. I will give you notice in advance if there are such points or I will give judgment.”
‘Finally, we would indorse the suggestion made by Miss Branigan QC for the child’s guardian, that the issue should be addressed at the case management conference in care proceedings or at the earliest directions hearing in private law proceedings. It should not be left to the party to raise. This is not, however, an invitation to elaborate consideration of what will usually be a non-issue.’
‘The Supreme Court [in Re W] did not consider that their decision would lead to children routinely giving evidence, predicting that the outcome of the court’s balancing exercise, if it was called upon to adjudicate upon such matters, would be a conclusion that the additional benefits in calling the child would not outweigh the additional harm it would cause him or her.’