"I do not want to put you through a longer hearing than necessary, but it is kind of important that we spend time to discuss this and get it right. Can I just deal with the next thing, because we will talk about psychological assessment again, but can I tackle something that in a sense is even more challenging? The minute the court put something called a penal notice onto an order, you find that unsurprisingly very threatening indeed and I understand that completely. The difficulty is that the court has a hang up with making orders, trying to make the right orders and then seeing that they are complied with, and it is kind of stage one in a process of trying to achieve compliance with court orders. There is a point in cases of this type where a mum feels very, very strongly that they have an overriding duty to protect their child's emotional and physical safety, but the court has a different view of the child's emotional welfare than mum does, where something has to give and the court does not usually pack up and go home. Packing up and going home is one of the options that Mrs Hodgkinson has raised. She has said it is an option, but seriously it may be overall the least worst thing to do and N can maybe resurrect a relationship with his father when he is much older. But the court does not normally step back and that is not a normal reaction to a situation in which domestic violence has not been, in the eyes of the law, established. A change of residence is a last resort. There are many cases in which it cannot happen and many cases in which the father would be the first to hold his hands up and say, "
"Yeah, I think as you were saying -- I think contact can go ahead, definitely, but it's about how that's gonna be done for N and to have it so that it's consistent and a positive for him, so that it's something that he knows is going to go on no matter what, either for me or Mr S."
"I tell you what the difficulties involving the law are. You were presented with a whole new scenario, which you must have thought about, which you had not really concentrated on because you had your position and we are in danger of now taking this forward to a conclusion with possibly a shared residence order with your primary care of N not disturbed, you being the primary carer on any view with a family assistance order to ease things and you going away and tonight on your own possibly thinking, "
"Shared residence makes me panic, I admit, but I admit I am inclined -- obviously inclined to panic specifically about this, but --"
"Can I put it this way? Forget the labels for a minute. Your status as primary carer of N is not under threat if this contact arrangement works."
"Yes, if it works for N then it's good."
"It is the fact that it did not work that put it in jeopardy."
"Yes, if it works and it's -- it's removed possibilities of failing and then cause the problems for N, then that's good 'cause it --"
"But can I be blunt? I do not know you. I do not know Mr S. I have seen each of you for however long the hearings that you have each attended and been. I get a sort of thumbnail sketch of him from Mrs Hodgkinson [the guardian] and she describes him as a sort of a man's man. I get the sort of sense he is quite rough and ready and has got a straightforward approach and I can tell you now things are going to go wrong. N is going to come home and say things that -- you know, he might not be upset, but he might say things or report things to you that give you worries."
"The thing that I would like most -- this is the final step -- is that if that order had at the top the words "by consent"."
"I can either put "by consent", but I will not do that unless you actively do agree with it, or I can simply say that "
"Yeah, I think by consent is probably going to be better 'cause given that hopefully that N --"
"I think it is what you have done, frankly. Thank you for that. I am very grateful."