"Well it takes matters further, first of all because it medically... I think it is a good explanation of what we are seeing. It was not something which had occurred to me as a way of looking at it, but now it clarifies for me and it suggests that there have been at least two separate episodes of trauma, which cause the depression on each side but at separate times, so we would be looking at one prior to 2000 and then one some time between 2000 and 2002."
"... there is a clear difference between the two examinations and the two photographs and I think that the weight of explanation is that there has been further trauma to the hymen."
"... I am looking at trauma, and to give you an indication, it is something the size of an adult finger, I could not tell you it was a finger or a stick, or a... No, I cannot think of anything other than trauma to cause those appearances."
"So we have got normal appearance, the penny dropped when you think you have got a sleeve hymen, now you can understand why it looks normal. It was abnormal and at the end of my evidence I am going to repeatedly stress to you, these photographs do not show a normal hymen. These two sets of photographs are not normal. Whatever explanations we dig around and look about, and I try to be very fair, wracking back through my brain, thinking of all the clinical incidents, anything I have read that would explain this. I come back to you the common thread that runs through this is that this has been trauma but that is a speculation. The evidence is that no time have you got a photograph of a normal hymen."
"I think probably we ought to get on with Dr Evans' evidence but I think in so far as it may help you, Mr Stonor, it seems to me that you have a very uphill task in this case. MR STONOR: Your Honour, so be it. JUDGE WOOD: So if you want to get on with your uphill task well you had better do so."
"Well I am not suggesting you should not note it, of course you should note it, but whether a child is completely silent throughout an examination or weeping throughout an examination does not really tell you anything about child abuse, does it?"
"Well I think experienced paediatricians would disagree and would say that it did. Paediatricians who have worked a lot in child protection issues. I think the presentation of a child does tell you quite a lot."
"Well I am sorry to hear you say that. Anyway, those are the only matters I wanted to ask about."
"The medical evidence in this case is highly unusual. Drs San Lazaro, Drummond Rollison were all called by the local authority Applicant. Dr Evans was, as I understand it, instructed by the Respondents but in the end called by the Local Authority. Dr Sunderland was instructed, again as I understand it, by the Guardian but also called by the local authority. In effect, there was no Defence medical evidence."
"It is undoubtedly a rare event for a Court to fail to accept the positive findings of highly experienced experts such as them, and I am certainly mindful of the observations, again in the case of Re B in 2002. However, the facts of this case are wholly different from Re B because in that case there was no question of anybody challenging, as it were, the raw materials. B's medical condition and his symptoms were clear and agreed by all the medical experts. All that was in dispute was the question of interpretation."
"As for the final alleged disclosures by Jean Thackray or Maureen Rowntree, I found those frankly to be bordering upon the absurd."
"Looking at these alleged disclosures as a whole, I have to remember that they emanate entirely from a two or three year old child, apparently one with poor verbal skills according to Dr San Lazaro. There are no memorandum interviews of the child. There are no videos, and two different Police Forces have declined to take any further action, even with the benefit of the medical evidence as well. These are serious allegations; they may well have resulted in a custodial sentence, and therefore... the Applicants must produce strong and cogent evidence. Cogent means compelling or convincing. I have no hesitation in concluding that I do not find these alleged disclosures either compelling or convincing. They are, in my judgment, manifestly unreliable."
"... T suffered a penetrative injury to her hymen which was evident when T was examined on15th December 2000 . The extent of that penetrative injury is unclear from the medical evidence currently available."
"I also would like to say that my conclusions in this case are also supported by the fact that in spite of all that has occurred between this mother and father they are still together, still supporting each other and still wish to bring up these two children in the future. They are supported in that at least by the father's parents, who have stood by them both resolutely throughout."
"All witnesses competent to give evidence are in general compellable to do so. Refusal to be sworn when compellable, or, after being sworn refusal to answer an admissible question, is a contempt of court."
"In any proceedings in which a court is hearing an application for an order under Part IV or V, no person shall be excused from— (a) giving evidence on any matter; or (b) answering any question put to him in the course of his giving evidence, on the ground that doing so might incriminate him or his spouse of an offence."
"In addition it seems likely that a judge hearing civil proceedings can compel a person to explain the circumstances in which a child has been injured."